Vitrious enamel on Sterling. Anyone done it?

[radio]

I have a very special custom project for an elite group of Air Force Veterans requiring the use of color and I don't want to use paints.  These pins will be handed down to their kids, grandkids and hopefully beyond, so I want to do this top notch.  I did a bit of research and it looks like vitreous enamel is the most durable.  My wife has a dandy bead kiln that would work perfectly, so no problem with firing the pieces. 
My main concern is where two colors meet.  Must colors be fired one at a time to prevent mingling, or can they be applied next to each other, then fired?  There really isn't a way on these pieces to use Cloisonne wire to keep them separate.  From what I gather, I will need to depletion gild the sterling for best results.

[pauls]

Hi, enamelling is not really my thing but I have sat in on a few enamelling workshops at my club.
Our enamelling expert says that stirling is difficult as the copper comes out and causes scale or oxidises (or something) on the piece before the enamel melts. She always uses fine silver. Could you actually use copper as I know you can enamel quite well on copper? I don't know why copper in stirling causes a problem but pure copper is OK. Anyway copper would be good to practise on till you got your colors and firing times spot on.
You can just pile colors on or fire each color separately, from my limited experience repeated firings tend to mix and blur your earlier patterns.
Good luck it sounds like an interesting project.

[radio]

Jan 18, 2014 20:13:41 GMT -5 pauls said:

Hi, enamelling is not really my thing but I have sat in on a few enamelling workshops at my club.
Our enamelling expert says that stirling is difficult as the copper comes out and causes scale or oxidises (or something) on the piece before the enamel melts. She always uses fine silver. Could you actually use copper as I know you can enamel quite well on copper? I don't know why copper in stirling causes a problem but pure copper is OK. Anyway copper would be good to practise on till you got your colors and firing times spot on.
You can just pile colors on or fire each color separately, from my limited experience repeated firings tend to mix and blur your earlier patterns.
Good luck it sounds like an interesting project.

Thanks Pauls,

I might end up ordering some .999 for the project, but supposedly if I use the depletion gilding process on Sterling, then the enameling should be OK.  This is a very special project, so the use of precious metal is important, otherwise I would use copper.
My main worry is keeping the colors from mingling where two meet

[1dave]

You could try casting your surface with designed pits where you want your separate colors.

[1dave]

Perhaps etching pattern to hold the colors?

From manofglass: Good information on

warmglass.com/

[radio]

Jan 19, 2014 11:01:56 GMT -5 1dave said:

You could try casting your surface with designed pits where you want your separate colors.

I'm not set up for casting yet.  Hopefully later this year though   I may have to solder wire or bezel strip around the separation points, but had hoped that wouldn't be necessary.    I have about 2 months to perfect the technique, so I'll have to practice on some scrap pieces and see what I can come up with.

[rockjunquie]

Sounds like a real honor to do this project. I can't help, but I'll be following along if you keep us updated. I'm curious to see if it can be done.

[radio]

Jan 19, 2014 21:16:47 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

Sounds like a real honor to do this project. I can't help, but I'll be following along if you keep us updated. I'm curious to see if it can be done.

Yes, it is quite an honor.  Not a real profitable project, but I wanted to do something special for these guys and it wasn't all about money.
The only hint I can drop right now is the pin will have Orange in it.  Anyone know the significance of Orange in the Air Force, and why that color was chosen?

[1dave]

Jan 19, 2014 21:13:23 GMT -5 radio said:

Jan 19, 2014 11:01:56 GMT -5 1dave said:

You could try casting your surface with designed pits where you want your separate colors.

I'm not set up for casting yet.  Hopefully later this year though   I may have to solder wire or bezel strip around the separation points, but had hoped that wouldn't be necessary.    I have about 2 months to perfect the technique, so I'll have to practice on some scrap pieces and see what I can come up with.

How about etching your pattern?

[radio]

Jan 19, 2014 23:24:16 GMT -5 1dave said:

Jan 19, 2014 21:13:23 GMT -5 radio said:

I'm not set up for casting yet.  Hopefully later this year though   I may have to solder wire or bezel strip around the separation points, but had hoped that wouldn't be necessary.    I have about 2 months to perfect the technique, so I'll have to practice on some scrap pieces and see what I can come up with.

How about etching your pattern?

I'm not sure etching would work with the construction of this piece.  It will be roughly a 20 X 20 mm square or slight rectangle with a piece soldered on top at an angle.  This piece will be cut out (by piercing) of 22ga sterling or fine silver .  The rectangle will be easy to color, but the piece on top needs 3 colors .  I might get away with using two, but 3 would be preferred.  Wish I could post a pic or sketch, but I promised him I would not until the pieces are in his hands. 
Just think  bayonets, rifles or rockets soldered on a flat background for the main focus of the piece.  That will give a general idea of how I am approaching the project

[rockjunquie]

Well, seeing how all my men have been Navy, and that google wouldn't answer me- I have to say, no, I don't know what the color of orange has to do with the Air Force. The only thing I found was stuff about agent orange. I'm assuming that's not what you were referencing.

[radio]

Jan 20, 2014 16:26:40 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

Well, seeing how all my men have been Navy, and that google wouldn't answer me- I have to say, no, I don't know what the color of orange has to do with the Air Force. The only thing I found was stuff about agent orange. I'm assuming that's not what you were referencing.

Nope, not agent Orange:-)  Orange is the color of test aircraft and anyone associated with testing anything while in flight wear Orange jumpsuits.  Much easier to see in the desert in the event of a crash.
If you see a patch or pin on a uniform and it has Orange incorporated in it, then that person was associated with flight testing something

[tomcloss]

I've done some enameling a few things to note:
If you want to use sterling you will want to depletion guild it a lot. Pauls is correct about the copper oxide causing the enamel to not stick.
Test run the enamel. The color that the enamel is when it cooks and cools can be different even from the starting color.

Are you using a kiln or torch? Do you plan wet pack, dust, or paint?

Just a few things off the top of my head.
Tom

[radio]

Jan 22, 2014 11:56:47 GMT -5 tomcloss said:

I've done some enameling a few things to note:
If you want to use sterling you will want to depletion guild it a lot. Pauls is correct about the copper oxide causing the enamel to not stick.
Test run the enamel. The color that the enamel is when it cooks and cools can be different even from the starting color.

Are you using a kiln or torch? Do you plan wet pack, dust, or paint?

Just a few things off the top of my head.
Tom

I think I will play with sterling first and see how it goes.  It seems if I tackle the hardest thing first, then the easier way is a walk in the park  
I will be using a kiln.  The enameling will be on a flat, but raised surface so there are no outlines to fill and painting seemed like my best option