Covid protection of my fire pit business

[jamesp]

Business philosophy

So I went to meet my competitor s&s at the art booth.

I showed him photos of the new guy's pits that is way undercutting pricing.
And copying s&s designs verbatim using similar found items as bases.
And copying my designs, my Craig's list ad, my Etsy ad.

s&s has pride in his originality, I have pride in mine.
Doubtful that we will copy each other. Keep our prices at a profitability level.
Pretty sure we will be allies in that arena.

s&s a young bunch and wants to grow. Targeting large sales volume.
I just want to stay a small one man operation(occasional help) with limited volume.
I have already started referring people to s&s as sales are about the level I want to keep them at.

It is often good to be able to refer your competitors and not be too greedy.
I referred ( a larger)Charleston Aquatic nurseries for over 20 years to supply tropical plants and my(smaller) Rocky Shoals Aquatics did most of the hardy plants.
End result that the customers got the best of each. Attracts more public interest. Builds the industry. Energizes market.
It is a pinnacle of success when such an arrangement falls into place.

s&s is doing 30 shows a year. Stimulating interest in fire pits. Without a doubt, I am in debt to them for such a heavy marketing campaign.
I get bleed off sales from his campaign. It is a great arrangement.

s&s fire pits:



Mr. Undercutter:



Mr. Undercutter's Craig's List ad

24" - $125
30" - $160
36" - $260
36" on base - $300
36" Surrounded by granite stones: $525
37" Hemisphere (deeper bowl) $300
42 - $350
48" - $400

My Craig's List ad(priced for customer P/U)

Elliptical (flatter) bowls
24 inch-from $140
30 inch-$275
36 inch-$345
42 inch-$440
48 inch-$600
Hemispherical (deeper) bowls
30 inch-$330
37 inch-$400
41 inch-$540

[Intheswamp]

What the price disparity tells me (a simple layperson in regards to welding and art) is that their is a difference in quality and craftsmanship.

deletisimo!!!!

[jamesp]

Jun 28, 2016 7:58:20 GMT -5 Intheswamp said:

What the price disparity tells me (a simple layperson in regards to welding and art) is that their is a difference in quality and craftsmanship.

FirePitsAtlanta

"The Original Fire Pit Guy"

If you do the math he will be working for pennies. Don't see him staying around long Ed.
You have to make some money to maintain motivation.

[Intheswamp]

Gotta be a profit motive.

Your last sentence reverberates in my head.....

[Intheswamp]

Scott, is my posting "FirePitsAtlanta" not a good thing to post? ...regarding the search engine stuff?

[captbob]

I just Googled f*repitsatlanta and your competitor SS guy is the first to come up. Seems he has incorporated your trade name in his titles somehow. Guess you are too diplomatic to ask him about that?

www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=jtyHVM6-PM38gwSTjIHQBA&ved=0CAMQ1S4#q=firepitsatlanta

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2016 10:00:04 GMT -5 Intheswamp said:

Sco8tt, is my posting "redacted" not a good thing to post? ...regarding the search engine stuff?

I think it makes it so competition can see what he is discussing.

But, yes mentions are good for Google.

[jamesp]

Web site is incomplete, not SO optimized, has no commerce section.
To some degree the website was built to be vogue and for reference.
Target is to sell 200 pits/year.
None or minimal employees
No hassle
No trade shows
No web maintenance
Minimal marketing
Freight company 10 miles away
Like having clients pick up
Like custom jobs

Sales on a ramp up for 5 months. Started tinkering with website 4 months ago. Not knowing what sale are going to do.
Hoping that I can deactivate website; as of this month it is a consideration as this fall I fear too much business.

Having sold for almost 10 years I get a lot of word-of-mouth business too. it is unpredictable.
An old client will have a wedding or special event party and a wave of customers hit from such a gathering.

[Intheswamp]

James, there was a young logger that used to do business with me. I think with the economy and logging going a little sour he's pulled back in and may have gone to work with someone now. But, I digress... He was a BIG guy, as in "Dude, how many chickens do you eat at one time?" kind of guy. He chewed, his daddy chewed, I think his mama chewed but might have dipped. Anyhow, good country folks that weren't afraid to work. He also didn't speak really plainly, a little bit of a speech impediment. If he was talking about somebody or "bodies" that he didn't like or care much for a favorite expression of his was "You know what I say'bout'em....fud'em".

I'll never forget watching you sitting beside the water steadily breaking up cobblestones. There ain't no other place you'd rather have been at that moment. You're doing about as much as you want to with your fire pits right now, from what I take from your messages above. You've got the best advertising going that you can get, and it's free....*word of mouth*!!! You don't have to race here and there to get to this show or that show, and you love doing what you're doing. If I was you I'd just keep doing what you've been doing...it's working and you're (mostly<grin>) having fun along the way.  Shoot, you might even go by and meet the low-ballers....just to rattle their cage a bit.  Let the other guys deal with the stress and rat race......."fud'em".   

We know who understands steel...and rocks, too!     

Ed

Btw, have you ever thought about setting a stone in a pit, maybe along the rim or in the handles...maybe some of that fine coral? Just a thought.

[jamesp]

Intheswamp Ed. Life to short to work all the time. Am fortunate to hit a little home run with plants and pits.
Kept me independent and unable to ever adapt to modern day corporate world. Not sure if good or bad.
Red corvettes, fast women and cocaine not an interest.

Lots of different pursuits. To each his own I suppose. Peace of mind and security sounds well enough.
Good rock cracking buddies sounds like a darn good target.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2016 19:09:13 GMT -5 jamesp said:

Intheswamp Ed. Life to short to work all the time. Am fortunate to hit a little home run with plants and pits.
Kept me independent and unable to ever adapt to modern day corporate world. Not sure if good or bad.
Red corvettes, fast women and cocaine not an interest.

Lots of different pursuits. To each his own I suppose. Peace of mind and security sounds well enough.
Good rock cracking buddies sounds like a darn good target.

You are my hero in many ways. One is to have a series of microbusiness each producing income on limited time. The end result is a decent income and lots of freedom.

But

What's wrong with cocaine? Lol

[jamesp]

Jun 28, 2016 19:24:36 GMT -5 @shotgunner said:

Jun 28, 2016 19:09:13 GMT -5 jamesp said:

Intheswamp Ed. Life to short to work all the time. Am fortunate to hit a little home run with plants and pits.
Kept me independent and unable to ever adapt to modern day corporate world. Not sure if good or bad.
Red corvettes, fast women and cocaine not an interest.

Lots of different pursuits. To each his own I suppose. Peace of mind and security sounds well enough.
Good rock cracking buddies sounds like a darn good target.

You are my hero in many ways. One is to have a series of microbusiness each producing income on limited time. The end result is a decent income and lots of freedom.

But

What's wrong with cocaine? Lol

Corporate politics was all the motivation it took.
And I never had kids. Hard to pull much off when raising kids. Would have never gambled w/self employment if we had kids.

[Deleted]

jamesp

I had the pet store but ex-wifey had a solid job. Turns out I fit into the sales machine corporate setting well, so for now, that is it for me. Possible big changes in next 30 days. Top secret. Pshhhh ... don't tell nobody....

[jamesp]

Jun 28, 2016 19:37:52 GMT -5 @shotgunner said:

jamesp

I had the pet store but ex-wifey had a solid job. Turns out I fit into the sales machine corporate setting well, so for now, that is it for me. Possible big changes in next 30 days. Top secret. Pshhhh ... don't tell nobody....

You got to make a lot of money to be self employed.
Need to gross 100K just to be even with a person making 50K and getting 401K match for retirement.
I got lucky on real estate deals back in the boom which payed off all real estate debts and gave me some holdings for retirement.
I am almost 60 and not set totally well for retirement due to properties losing value. Lest another boom comes along which probably is not going to happen.
No more wild life and no more risk of bodily harm or else I am shut down. Got to stay healthy.
At your age I did not have a care. 60 year old body not as upwardly mobile for hard work or job oppurtunities.
Surprising how much age beats you down.
It is hard to get people to spend money this day. Every since 9/11.
Being self employed for 25 years I had many connections w/self employed. I watched small businesses drop like flies since 9/11.
USA a poor environment for about all small business except low overhead internet businesses.

3 rules of success:

1) What ever widget you get into make sure that it appeals to the richey folks.
2) What ever widget you get into make sure that it appeals to the richey folks.
3) What ever widget you get into make sure that it appeals to the richey folks.

I have 2 electrical engineer friends. They get contract jobs off the internet and $100-$200/hour. Even more on some contracts.
Pretty much have it made. But they have very high skill levels.

Overall opinion of self employment ? Great if you have high income. And if you do, competition always nipping at your heals.
Spend a lot of time being wily rabbit and concerned about people on the prowl copying you.

[jamesp]

They were pre-built. Got back yesterday, loaded and taken to the freight company today.

TN-CA-NH-MD-OH-MA. So three to the NE US. ave freight $190, ave weight 210 pounds.

[jamesp]

New one. Hybrid, gas and wood burner. Not released yet. Burner from China. Betting a money maker.
Fill bowl w/fire glass, maybe tumbles. Tumbles may start cracking and flying.
36". $1000

[Intheswamp]

Dang James, your gonna end up putting everybody out of business....unintentionally. I like the way you're slowing down.<grin>

Btw, that looks great!!!!

Ed

[captbob]

That's kinda cool, good idea for those that don't want to stock wood. Around here, a wood pile attracts cockroaches; although I'm not sure a yuppy type would think ahead that way. Would love to see it in action.

By now, you know me and my questions, so here they come!

Have you tested with the fire glass to see how big of flame you can get? The ones I see on the home improvement shows that the wife unit watches don't get a very tall flame. A thousand bucks (plus shipping) seems kinda expensive for a small flame fire, but I'm a pyro and like big flames! (which is what a fire pit is all about to me)

What's a 36" bowl with a lid go for without the gas burner?

Assume it hooks up to a propane tank? If so, the propane tank has a valve to open/close - what is the valve looking thing in the middle of your hose for? How long does a propane tank burn for if opened all the way?

Can you show the gas burner guts? How hard it it to remove to go to wood?
You gonna try this in smaller (read: less expensive) bowls?

Obligatory eyeroll inducing question: With propane being heavier than air, is there any chance the connection to the burner could leak gas, fill the bowl with gas vapor and become a bomb?

Bottom line - I like your idea, it will be interesting to see how they sell and the wood to gas option ratio.

[jamesp]

Jul 18, 2016 11:37:06 GMT -5 captbob said:

That's kinda cool, good idea for those that don't want to stock wood. Around here, a wood pile attracts cockroaches; although I'm not sure a yuppy type would think ahead that way. Would love to see it in action.

By now, you know me and my questions, so here they come!

Have you tested with the fire glass to see how big of flame you can get? The ones I see on the home improvement shows that the wife unit watches don't get a very tall flame. A thousand bucks (plus shipping) seems kinda expensive for a small flame fire, but I'm a pyro and like big flames! (which is what a fire pit is all about to me)

What's a 36" bowl with a lid go for without the gas burner?

Assume it hooks up to a propane tank? If so, the propane tank has a valve to open/close - what is the valve looking thing in the middle of your hose for? How long does a propane tank burn for if opened all the way?

Can you show the gas burner guts? How hard it it to remove to go to wood?
You gonna try this in smaller (read: less expensive) bowls?

Obligatory eyeroll inducing question: With propane being heavier than air, is there any chance the connection to the burner could leak gas, fill the bowl with gas vapor and become a bomb?

Bottom line - I like your idea, it will be interesting to see how they sell and the wood to gas option ratio.

Have not fired it up. It took a few minutes to cut hole in top for gas burner.
non gas unit 36 w/cover" is 375 and 140 and you pay freight ~180 to you, or 100 if you pick up at dock in a tundra, chevy/ford 101. Then tundra/bob discount

all connections o-ringed. top is not welded so it should not be a bomb.
no idea about full flow time of 20# propane tank
valve connections hoses tank connection all included.
takes a minute to remove burner and then table top. Then ready for a real(wood) fire.
I get requests for gas burner conversion all the time.
small or large, price not to much different due to labor = on either say 300/400 from 30" to 48"



Disconnected, then remove cover for real fire

[jamesp]

Jul 18, 2016 10:43:16 GMT -5 Intheswamp said:

Dang James, your gonna end up putting everybody out of business....unintentionally. I like the way you're slowing down.<grin>

Btw, that looks great!!!!

Ed

El yea, and they fit the competitor's. Parasitical Profits PP lol