FACETING: DOP progress, photos

[Pat]

I have the opportunity to buy a used Raytech-Shaw faceting machine and a Facette faceting machine. Facette about 8 years old.

Facette used only once due to illness. Don't know about the other, but not heavily used.

I've heard Facette is the best, or was it Facetron?

Anyhow, I need some guidance. I've never faceted anything, but with this opportunity, I might start.

If you can, can you suggest a price that would be fair to both the seller and to me?

Thanks.

[gemfeller]

Pat, both machines will cut good gems but the Facette is by far the best and most accurate. Also the most expensive. However, condition is primary. There's always some risk in buying used faceting machines due to alignment problems and use/abuse, etc.

The Rayttech is built along the lines of diamond-cutting machines with a removable handpiece nicknamed a "frog" because it sits on a "lily-pad" rest, which makes it easy to inspect facets during cutting. Simply lift the frog from he rest and check progress. It's among the lowest-cost "entry-level" machines, with new ones going for around $2K with basic accessories. Raytech no longer makes the machines but parts and repairs are available through another manufacturer. The Raytech is a 6-inch lap machine which is more economical at the outset but involves some limitations because some of the most popular new laps are only available in 8-inch size. I'm thinking of the Batt Lap series although the manufacturer can often do special 6-inch orders. The machine itself can be accurate with care but is slow due to requiring lots of "cut a little, look a lot."

Facette is considered a "Cadillac" machine but it's no longer being manufactured and availability of new parts and repairs at present is "iffy." I've seen discussion to and fro about their supply status and it's definitely something you need to look into very carefully if it becomes your choice. It's a mast-type machine with a fixed handpiece that moves up and down on the mast and laterally by moving the entire mast. It's an 8-inch machine and it has a very solid reputation due largely to its oversize protractor which makes fine adjustments more accurate. It also usually comes with some sort of sophisticated electronic depth-of-cut indicator (there have been several versions and I'm not sure how machines of that age were equipped). I've seen used machines offered recently at between $5 and $6K. Price of both machines is affected by condition and the number and quality of included accessories like transfer jig, laps, dops, index gears etc.

I'll give the standard advice: join the free on-line USFG Faceters Guild to get more current and detailed advice. The enthusiasts there are very helpful and are have the latest information on pricing, parts availability etc. I'm just telling you stuff off the top of my head from memory. I've used the Raytech a lot and it's a good little machine if you give it proper care and pay attention to alignment etc. In fact I far prefer its design to mast machines. But you'll see it bad-mouthed by many cutters who use more expensive machines and consider it junk. In the final analysis its a big decision and the machine purchase is just the beginning. You'll need all sorts of laps and when it comes to faceting rough the sky's the $ limit.

[QuailRiver]

Jul 28, 2016 15:44:45 GMT -5 Pat said:

I have the opportunity to buy a used Raytech-Shaw faceting machine and a Facette faceting machine. Facette about 8 years old.

Facette used only once due to illness. Don't know about the other, but not heavily used.

I've heard Facette is the best, or was it Facetron?

Anyhow, I need some guidance. I've never faceted anything, but with this opportunity, I might start.

If you can, can you suggest a price that would be fair to both the seller and to me?

Thanks.

I buy and sell a lot of old collections and have owned multiples of most every brand of U.S. made faceting machines produced in the last 40 years. And IMO the Fac-ette Gem Master II is the best for fast repeatable accuracy. So that is what I chose for my personal machine and am very pleased with it.

Three plus years ago the company that was making the Fac-ette Gem Master II machines in Eastern NC stopped production and sold the rights to Wyatt Yeagar who is currently producing parts and machines to order. His company name is Precision Faceting. www.precisionfaceting.com/ Wyatt has his new machines priced at $5,999.00 which is about $800 more than the NC made ones were when they stopped production in 2012. (These were the prices of the Gem Master II with the EMS unit. The last few years in business in NC Fac-ette did produce a Gem Master machine without the EMS unit which, if my memory serves correctly, sold for about $1,500 less).


The older machines have held their value well. And one that has only been used once would be a prized find! If the Machine you are looking at is the Gem Master II model with the EMS unit and has been stored properly away from dampness and has not been mishandled then IMO the value with standard accessories would be somewhere between $4k - $4.5k. If after examining the machine if it appears to have been used more than believed to have been by the family of the late owner, but still is in very good shape then I would say $3.5k would be in line with what I have seen similar machines sale for of late.

If it turns out the machine is older than the family believed, and is one of the older original Gem Master Machines that were produced in Seattle, WA, with EMS then in the $1.5k - $2.8k range depending on condition and accessories.

Normally I would not recommend someone new to faceting sink this kind of money into a machine until they have first taken some hands-on faceting lessons to make sure that faceting is for them. But an eight year old Gem Master II machine that has only been used once is almost too rare of a find to pass up on unless you really aren't sure if you would like to facet. And since these do hold their value pretty well if you do buy it and decide you don't enjoy faceting you could probably still get most your original investment back on a resale.

Hope this helps.

Larry C.

[pauls]

Buying a second hand machine is good if you get one that has been looked after and comes with everything you need to get started.
Don't underestimate the value of a machine that comes with laps, different index wheels and a good selection of dops. Bits and pieces like that can end up costing you a fortune if you have to buy them all to get started.
Other things that might sway you are, dopping glue and faceting dopping wax, a transfer jig (a must have). diamond powders, used machines aften come with a collection of rough.

[QuailRiver]

Also Pat in addition to the USFG which Rick mentioned, there is a FB page dedicated for Fac-ette users. www.facebook.com/groups/GemMaster/

Larry C.

[Pat]

Thank you for all the information. Now to digest it and make my decision. Lots to consider.

[Pat]

Update: I bought the Raytech Shaw, but haven't checked it out yet. It came with a lot of equipment and material.

I now have the details on the Facette: It is a Custom Portable; has the EMS 18-2 and diamond spray, index gears 72 80 G4. New it was $1719 from Seattle.

Seller would like to know what to ask for it. My rule of thumb is half or less. Since this machine was used once, I'd suggest half.

What would you say?
Thanks,

[Deleted]

****and material.....

I love to see that!!!

Pat

[gemfeller]

Pat, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me about Facette machines will speak up. I've never heard of a Custom Portable Facette -- their standard model is the Gemmaster -- and the original price seems a bit low to me despite its age. Maybe Larry C. will be able to explain more.

Good luck with the Raytech. I do happen to know quite a bit about them and if you have questions don't hesitate to PM me. I may not have all the answers but I have a pretty big file on them. Does yours come with an instruction manual? If not I can send you a copy of mine. Hope you got lots of nice cutting material with the machine.

[QuailRiver]

Aug 1, 2016 19:34:16 GMT -5 Pat said:

Update: I bought the Raytech Shaw, but haven't checked it out yet. It came with a lot of equipment and material.

I now have the details on the Facette: It is a Custom Portable; has the EMS 18-2 and diamond spray, index gears 72 80 G4. New it was $1719 from Seattle.

Seller would like to know what to ask for it. My rule of thumb is half or less. Since this machine was used once, I'd suggest half.

What would you say?
Thanks,

Congratulations and welcome to faceting! The Raytech-Shaw is a good machine and the free-handed Handpiece is beneficial when learning to facet.

Did the portable Fac-ette model look like the one pictured here?

If so, I have never seen one of those models in person and didn't even know they were ever produced until recently when Jay Connor posted a scan of the above vintage ad on Facet Finds FB group page. But if it was from the Seattle, WA plant then it is more than 8 years old. Here is an article on the Dobo brothers who used to own Fac-ette: www.starnewsonline.com/news/20100709/robert-and-william-dobo

And since I've never handled one in person or seen one for sale I have no frame of reference for a value on this model. Perhaps if you contact Cindy Young Hine through the USFG Yahoo group page, or through FB, she will be able to tell you more. Cindy used to work for Fac-ette when they were in Leland, NC and still does re-calibrating both new and old machines through Wyatt Yeagar's company Precision Faceting.

Larry C.

[Pat]

QuailRiver No, it doesn't look like that. I'll post a photo later. I also appreciate the welcome to faceting : )

[Pat]

gemfeller Thanks for the offer. I'll pm my information. Haven't seen a manual yet. I don't even know if I have all the parts.

[metalsmith]

Aug 2, 2016 12:16:50 GMT -5 Pat said:

gemfeller Thanks for the offer. I'll pm my information. Haven't seen a manual yet. I don't even know if I have all the parts.

Just stumbled on this thread ... did you get it up and running?

[Pat]

Nov 7, 2016 17:16:40 GMT -5 metalsmith said:

Aug 2, 2016 12:16:50 GMT -5 Pat said:

gemfeller Thanks for the offer. I'll pm my information. Haven't seen a manual yet. I don't even know if I have all the parts.

Just stumbled on this thread ... did you get it up and running?

Not yet. However, I now have a usable place for it and the manual. I started go check that I have all the parts, matching items per the very helpful manual. Moving right along! Sorta!

[metalsmith]

Manual? ... Now there's an idea!
Actually it is an idea <goes to look for one>

[metalsmith]

I've been reading Herbst: Amateur Gemstone Faceting - it is a bit basic but just making sure that I do exactly that and I get all the basics covered. I would recommend it. I have vol 2 tucked away to read in future too. 'Reading' is too strong a term, but one way or another I've just about got through vol 1.

[Pat]

Progress. Checked parts against the manual. Will check big disks and little wheels tomorrow. Reviewed a stack of paperwork and books. Sure a lot to this. I figure it is doable.

Came with dop sticks and wax, dop transfer mechanism, and preformer, as well as lots of stones.

Should be able to fire it up in a couple of days. Need to intelligently select my first stone and prepare it for dopping on the right dipstick.

Hope my fist looks half as good as yours! metalsmith

[metalsmith]

Nov 11, 2016 1:24:39 GMT -5 Pat said:

Should be able to fire it up in a couple of days. Need to intelligently select my first stone and prepare it for dopping on the right dipstick.
Hope my fist looks half as good as yours! metalsmith

Haha - compliments will get you everywhere! It seems like a huge learning curve. I've almost finished Herbst vol1 except for the bits I haven't read, cut a couple of stones and fired a few around the room. I'll post another pic later.

Don't get too hung up on selecting a stone. You'll learn as much, if not more, from hands on than reading. Make a few mistakes and there's your learning right there!

I started with the sard, a generally flat and already lozenge shaped stone. I simply true'd up the sides so that they were parallel to one another and put a flat top and bottom on. I slipped a bezelled edge on then another just a fraction away just for the sake of it. What I missed out here is my early mistake, not thinking through: the bezel was shallow and it worked its way inland quite a bit... the finished stone is a bit smaller than intended.

In summary though, pick a stone that's not too precious, nor needs much to it. Let intuition guide you and just formalise a bezel that you might free-hand on a cab... that is, set to a specific angle and just try to get meet points all the way round 4 sides for starters. We can run after we've learned to crawl then walked.

[Pat]

Don't worry about me getting hung up selecting a stone. Took about five minutes! Selected two quartz crystals that need cleaning up. Size about one inch, and about two inches. Also picked four light blue long thin crystals that need cleaning up. Don't know what they are.

Lastly have small handful of small chunks of pink chalcedony that had been rough tumbled. Will do these last. Will post before and after pictures.

Figured the flats would introduce me slowly.

Need to set up water business and attach all the necessary pieces.
Then finally get to flip the switch and watch the magic (or whatever!).

[Pat]

The water business is now set up, but haven't figured out how to attach the arm that holds the dop. Working on it. Eager to flip the switch : )