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Post by tims on Aug 9, 2016 14:16:03 GMT -5
Personally I've always viewed the metaphysical attributions of certain stones as being little more than a marketing ploy. Still, if it increases sales that must mean people actually believe in the beneficial qualities of stone. And I am also quite a hypocrite, because I like carrying a piece of moss agate and I feel like a better person when it's in my hand or pocket.
So, a simple yes / no poll for curiosity's sake. Comments are very welcome.
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 9, 2016 17:48:30 GMT -5
I don't carry any rocks for this reason but there is an old thread where I explain the physics behind how some stones can actually affect the body through the piezoelectric effect.
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 9, 2016 17:52:33 GMT -5
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Post by tims on Aug 10, 2016 1:33:05 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll give it a look ... Some good arguments and observations there thanks vegasjames. Seeing so many people either defending or at least not dismissing the metaphysical aspect was surprising, especially compared to the current results of the poll. And your mention of piezoelectricity might lend some legitimacy to why it's soothing for me to rub my thumb on an agate, although even if it's purely psychological i'm still satisfied with the effect. |
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 10, 2016 3:59:07 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll give it a look ... Some good arguments and observations there thanks vegasjames . Seeing so many people either defending or at least not dismissing the metaphysical aspect was surprising, especially compared to the current results of the poll. And your mention of piezoelectricity might lend some legitimacy to why it's soothing for me to rub my thumb on an agate, although even if it's purely psychological i'm still satisfied with the effect. Sense of touch can also be distracting and soothing. That is why there are worry stones you can keep in your pocket and rub when you are stressed. But many stones do contain quartz or other piezoelectric compounds. When exposed to an electrical field or force these will in turn generate their own electrical current. And research has shown that electricity can heal. The body itself gives off an electrical current. For instance when a shark does bite a human, which is quite rare, the last sense the shark relies on to find its target is the detection of the body's electrical field through the shark's electrical sensing ampullae of Lorenzini. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 10, 2016 15:12:03 GMT -5
I was gonna mention the worry stone, too. But, rather than call it a worry stone, I like to call it a reflection stone. I like to rub them when I am deep in thought. Helps me think. I used to carry one a lot, but I don't anymore.
edit to add that I usually have in my purse a little rock that I found years ago. No real reason, maybe call it a good luck charm. It doesn't give me any particular feelings, though.
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Post by tims on Aug 10, 2016 19:40:56 GMT -5
I was gonna mention the worry stone, too. But, rather than call it a worry stone, I like to call it a reflection stone. I like to rub them when I am deep in thought. Helps me think. I used to carry one a lot, but I don't anymore. edit to add that I usually have in my purse a little rock that I found years ago. No real reason, maybe call it a good luck charm. It doesn't give me any particular feelings, though. I think that qualifies. Just the sense of feeling "better" when you carry it, even if you can't really quantify what in particular is "better". |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Aug 10, 2016 21:51:45 GMT -5
My wife carries a rock that makes her feel good. It's made of pure carbon and is very shiny and fiery. It cost me a bundle, too.
As for me, I'm quite happy just discovering all the incredible natural beauty that's often hidden inside what my Uncle called FLR's -- Funny Lookin' Rocks. Being the first person to see those wonderful creations gives me a huge lift -- but you have to take the fractures with the beauty. That's life.
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Post by Pat on Aug 10, 2016 22:17:44 GMT -5
Like gemfeller 's wife, I like my engagement ring and wear it all the time. I think it is the emotional attachment that makes me feel good. Not the actual stone. Blue sapphire. Re the piezoelectric properties of some rocks: a German scientist friend had a very bad back. Went to his boss's office in pain. Boss told him to lie face down on his desk. Boss took some large quartz crystals and passed them over his back. Cured his backache AND got him interested in rocks! |
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dottyt
spending too much on rocks
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Post by dottyt on Aug 10, 2016 23:50:04 GMT -5
Like gemfeller 's wife, I like my engagement ring and wear it all the time. I think it is the emotional attachment that makes me feel good. Not the actual stone. Blue sapphire. Interesting! Does it have a protective setting? I had (still have actually) a blue sapphire ring, but after 2 or 3 years its edges wore down. Not a whole lot but enough to be noticeable and for it to have lost much of its beauty. That difference between 9 and 10 counts! I am not really a fan of clear faceted stones though, so I have a black diamond. Way cheaper too.  |
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Post by Pat on Aug 11, 2016 0:07:00 GMT -5
dottyt I cannot imagine a sapphire wearing down at the edges; prongs- yes; stone-- never!
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dottyt
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Post by dottyt on Aug 11, 2016 0:28:03 GMT -5
I got it at Tiffany's so I would think it is actually sapphire -- or do they do the same sort of stuff with sapphires as some do with rubys: using a lot of epoxy or whatever? The salespeople are not very knowledgeable so it wouldn't be any good asking them, I suspect. Anyway, the edges look dull with the bare eye and with a lope the wear is very obvious. I am glad your stone is in good shape, but now I am really wondering....
(This paragraph is from a few minutes later.) Okay, I am now sure this was my fault. The sapphire ring had two smallish square sapphires right next to each other with both recessed somewhat below the metal of the ring. But I think the black diamond ring which had small stones all the way around it still scratched it. I sometimes wore them on neighboring fingers of the same hand instead of on opposite hands as I should have. The IGS site says diamond is four times as hard as corundum. That would certainly do it.
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 11, 2016 2:21:59 GMT -5
Like gemfeller 's wife, I like my engagement ring and wear it all the time. I think it is the emotional attachment that makes me feel good. Not the actual stone. Blue sapphire. Re the piezoelectric properties of some rocks: a German scientist friend had a very bad back. Went to his boss's office in pain. Boss told him to lie face down on his desk. Boss took some large quartz crystals and passed them over his back. Cured his backache AND got him interested in rocks! Did you know that bone itself is also piezoelectric? That is why we have to do weight bearing exercise on bone to increase bone density. We are born without mineralized bone, which is also why fractures in infants is different than in adults. When we start to crawl and walk the stress on the collagen matrix, which contains silica, stimulates the piezoelectric effect of the silica in the collagen allowing electrodeposition of the minerals in to the collagen matrix forming hard bone in young children and increasing bone density in others. Very minute electrical currents have also been applied to fractures, which also stimulates the piezoelectric effect of the silica in the collagen matrix. The result is fractures healing weeks faster. |
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 11, 2016 2:25:02 GMT -5
dottyt I cannot imagine a sapphire wearing down at the edges; prongs- yes; stone-- never! I agree, it would be hard to find something with a hardness above 9 to rub against enough wear the stone down. Maybe the edges are chipping, but very unlikely to wear down. |
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 11, 2016 2:27:55 GMT -5
I got it at Tiffany's so I would think it is actually sapphire -- or do they do the same sort of stuff with sapphires as some do with rubys: using a lot of epoxy or whatever? They fracture fill rubies with glass and borax. By the way rubies are sapphires. Red sapphires are called rubies. Other colors of sapphires are still called sapphires. |
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dottyt
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Post by dottyt on Aug 12, 2016 1:41:22 GMT -5
They fracture fill rubies with glass and borax. By the way rubies are sapphires. Red sapphires are called rubies. Other colors of sapphires are still called sapphires.
When I broke my ankle a bone growth simulator was prescribed. And as insurance covered most of it, there must be research to support it. It used ultrasound, but others use electrical stimulation. However if crystals promoted healing in this matter wouldn't it be physical and not metaphysical?
Having a bunch of rocks (but not enough) and having a couple books on stones supposed metaphysical properties, I have tried such things as putting a recommended stone under my pillow to see if it would bring pleasant dreams. I never noticed anything. I think such information is interesting as lore, and I really don't care what someone's personal beliefs are, I'll even grant that I could be too dense for subtle vibrations; I just don't like to see prices of nice rocks driven up by this expansion of the market.
Oh, and I tried putting an amethyst in a glass of wine to see if that would take away the ethanol effect. Just because of Pliny, you know. Of course that didn't work. And it is very unclear to me why someone would want it to. (Yeah, maybe you are at a banquet and the Emperor is trying to get you drunk and you suspect that would be a very bad idea.)
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 12, 2016 5:47:13 GMT -5
Uhmm, glass and borax doesn't sound very durable. I wonder if the same is done with blue sapphires? Or pink for that matter? I notice some blue sapphires are listed as "unaltered" -- the ones you have to call to get a price for. But sorry for derailing this thread.
When I broke my ankle a bone growth simulator was prescribed. And as insurance covered most of it, there must be research to support it. It used ultrasound, but others use electrical stimulation. However if crystals promoted healing in this matter wouldn't it be physical and not metaphysical?
The treatments are not done for durability but rather to hide flaws. Same reason some stones are oiled. Yes, bone growth stimulation with electrical currents has been known for decades and there is research on it. As for crystals it does fall under the definition of metaphysics as well. But as I pointed out earlier they can also fall under the physics principle of piezoelectric effect. And there can be even others such as resonant energy. But there is not much interest in researching things like this when it is looked at by many researchers as woo. Just like they view energy work even though demonstrable changes have been shown. |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Aug 12, 2016 10:38:33 GMT -5
Uhmm, glass and borax doesn't sound very durable. I wonder if the same is done with blue sapphires? Or pink for that matter? I notice some blue sapphires are listed as "unaltered" -- the ones you have to call to get a price for. But sorry for derailing this thread.
Since the subject has come up in this thread, certainly not all rubies are treated with glass and borax. It's unfortunate that one of the sources for substandard ruby is Burma/Myamar, since Burmese ruby has been regarded for centuries as the best of the best. It still is -- if it comes from the right place in Burma, the Mogok Valley. Top Mogok rubies are still the finest in the world, and very, very expensive. Another major source for rubies treated with glass/borax is Madagascar. Pink sapphire from Madagascar is also treated (heat) to enhance color but not usually with glass/borax. Gem treatment is a complex subject and changes rapidly. But as of now I'm not aware of similar fracture treatment with blue sapphires or any other sapphire colors (sapphire comes in every color but red, when it's called ruby -- but it's all the mineral corundum). There are several other treatments such as heat, beryllium diffusion and others that affect the quality/price of fine blue sapphires. That's why reports from recognized independent laboratories like the GIA, American Gemological Laboratories and others are very important in big $$$ sales. Someone will probably mention that it's currently illegal to import rubies and jadeite from Burma. I'm aware of that but it too is a complex matter and grist for its own thread. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 12, 2016 12:13:31 GMT -5
Living here in the shadow of Portlandia smack dab in the middle of the land of nuts and flakes I talk to a lot of the metaphysical folks. Sometimes I tell them about my experience.
Once my brother, who was a Babe Ruth pitcher, threw a rock in my direction with no intention of hitting me and I was fortunate enough to lean my head into it at the right moment. When my skull met-a-physical rock traveling at that speed I had an astral experience (saw stars) and an out of body episode.
They never seem too impressed by my story.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Aug 12, 2016 12:34:13 GMT -5
I do not regularly carry one, but I have been known to accept any metaphysical powers they can impart to me. Several years ago, I was having tremendous pain in my hip while I tried to sleep. I had a small Moqui Marble I took with me to bed for several months. The hip pain went away, and has not returned! Coincidence? Would it have gone away of its own accord? Who can be sure?
While I wouldn't bet the farm or pay extravagant amounts of money for Shaman stones, I see no reason NOT to try them, or any other stone with metaphysical properties. If your mind believes (Placebo effect?), maybe they will help you.
I realize that Moqui Marbles are (considered) male and female, and are best used in pairs. I have not done that. They can also be carried on your person for grounding, centering and protection. Jean |
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