jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 6:15:47 GMT -5
This is a set of rocks ready for AO 14,000 polish. They did 50 grit in rotary for coarse, 2.5 days in vibe with AO 80. Look closely at glare spots. Photos magnified to see defects.  Ok, these two mosses have fine color/patterns etc. BUT, they are riddled with tiny pits throughout. No amount of tumbling will remove them.  This (jasper) rock is in same boat. Pits, a crack, and not only that it is soft and not taking a polish well. No amount of tumbling will remove pits. And likely not going to take a wet shine.  These three rocks are pit free, already wet polished, hard material and looking good. will be photo perfect.  This pet wood in same boat, pit free, good polish, but a bit of a divot at upper left. Divot can be removed with grinder or tumbled away in coarse.  These are self collected Rio Grande River rocks. Most of them broken out of 2 to 6 pound cobbles. Just saying that it takes solid, high grade agate, pet wood and jasper to make perfect tumbles. In reality, perfect tumbling agate is not so easy to find and should command a high price. |
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Post by MrP on Apr 20, 2017 6:23:58 GMT -5
Looking nice............................MrP |
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426 
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Post by notjustone on Apr 20, 2017 6:28:23 GMT -5
"In reality, perfect tumbling agate is not so easy to find and should command a high price."
shhh don't be driving the price of tumbling rough up.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 6:56:10 GMT -5
"In reality, perfect tumbling agate is not so easy to find and should command a high price." shhh don't be driving the price of tumbling rough up. There is a solution notjuststone. You can buy a load of Brazilian agate. It is one of the most pit free/fracture free/highly polishable hardest agates on earth. The lapidary mogul known as China has taken over the Brazilian agate market for this very reason. Driven prices up 4 fold. The China folks dye it, heat treat it, and basically molest it artificially to make it different colors BECAUSE it is el perfecto solid agate. Fine base material. I suppose a list of the finest tumbling agates should be compiled. Like Montana, Snakeskin, many Texas Petrified Woods, Bahia, moss that is well filled with chalcedony, many carnelians, Brazilian, Patagonians, Georgia/Florida coral, blood stone. I do not buy in many varieties so I am not knowledgeable of the other varieties. A well formed Brazilian agate slice, about typical of Brazilian agate. Lots of bang for the buck due to it's quality(let me search Ebay) After looking at Brazilian agate on Ebay I was amazed at how expensive it has gotten and how poor the quality is. I have a friend who used to import it slabbed and polished in 55 gallon drums(660 pounds/drum) for $3 to $4 per pound. 40,000 pound shipment each year. He spent 3 weeks every year hand picking at many sawing operations from small family sawyers right up to large sweat shops. For 20 years. The Brazilian's rated it at BB-B-A-AA-AAA-AAAA. The Chinese put him out of business when they drove the price from $4/pound to $12/pound in 2 years. Two years after the Chinese got involved the AAA and AAAA was impossible to get your hands on it. About the best he could get was 'A' quality. a shame that source has been taken away from us.  |
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Apr 20, 2017 7:03:38 GMT -5
This should be the top post in this section all the time. I get those tiny pits in my picture jasper, but I also love the way they look so it doesn't bother me so much. You have to either start with great rough, or accept almost perfect/good enough. It's what I struggle with all the time - is my time/energy/patience worth the finished product? I'm guessing this is one reason people like creating cabs - finished product in a much shorter amount of time!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 7:31:24 GMT -5
This should be the top post in this section all the time. I get those tiny pits in my picture jasper, but I also love the way they look so it doesn't bother me so much. You have to either start with great rough, or accept almost perfect/good enough. It's what I struggle with all the time - is my time/energy/patience worth the finished product? I'm guessing this is one reason people like creating cabs - finished product in a much shorter amount of time! Well Dave, I windowed probably several thousand cobbles on the Rio Grande. If the windowed chip was as smooth as glass with ZERO pits I smiled. A eureka moment. Some of that agate was so darn beautiful but so much of it was full of defects in the form of micro pits. To tell you the truth, the finer the patterns and colors often the worse the pits. That is one reason I like to tumble my Georgia coral. About the only cracks in it are my fault, when hammering it down. About half the coral is dead solid and lacks cracks, example:  Sample windows from large coral heads in a shoal right there in the river. It is just plain solid stuff.  |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 7:40:28 GMT -5
I am spoiled and was used to tumbling the coral. It is about the only rock I tumbled(in mass at that) for 3 years when starting out in this hobby.
And it was virtually free. I had to limit my loads on 3 day trips to avoid breaking axles on truck.
Then I made a run to the Rio and found the wild colors and patterns.
But that first load I brought home was no where near the quality(in terms of pits and cracks) that I was used to in tumbling coral.
My 2nd and 3rd trips I focused on material free of cracks and pits.
It took almost 3 weeks to collect a decent load. And half of it is no where near as solid as my coral.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 7:51:40 GMT -5
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Apr 20, 2017 7:57:44 GMT -5
I am spoiled and was used to tumbling the coral. It is about the only rock I tumbled(in mass at that) for 3 years when starting out in this hobby. And it was virtually free. I had to limit my loads on 3 day trips to avoid breaking axles on truck. Then I made a run to the Rio and found the wild colors and patterns. But that first load I brought home was no where near the quality(in terms of pits and cracks) that I was used to in tumbling coral. My 2nd and 3rd trips I focused on material free of cracks and pits. It took almost 3 weeks to collect a decent load. And half of it is no where near as solid as my coral. I just started a barrel of your coral. Can't wait to see how it turns out. |
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Post by Garage Rocker on Apr 20, 2017 7:58:33 GMT -5
Great thread James. Go ahead and add India black skin agate to your list of materials that tumble well. It has a variety of patterns, banding and some even look like Montana's. It has fewer fractures than Montana's and can be found at a reasonable price. You listed Bahia agate, which has been one of my favorites and takes a tumble well. If you can find a nice bunch of baby Brazilian agate, they are fun to cut and there can be a lot of variety. Easy to handle on a tile saw too.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 8:12:09 GMT -5
Great thread James. Go ahead and add India black skin agate to your list of materials that tumble well. It has a variety of patterns, banding and some even look like Montana's. It has fewer fractures than Montana's and can be found at a reasonable price. You listed Bahia agate, which has been one of my favorites and takes a tumble well. If you can find a nice bunch of baby Brazilian agate, they are fun to cut and there can be a lot of variety. Easy to handle on a tile saw too. Thank you very much Randy. You are one that has a fine eye for great tumbling material. India Black skin.(Note, at reasonable price) Bahia. Baby Brazilians. People starting out in tumbling... many more would be satisfied in their results if they would just buy in some fine rock for the first run. Or some of the experienced folks for that matter. A list of the top 5 or 10 rocks for instance. |
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Post by Garage Rocker on Apr 20, 2017 8:25:59 GMT -5
Great thread James. Go ahead and add India black skin agate to your list of materials that tumble well. It has a variety of patterns, banding and some even look like Montana's. It has fewer fractures than Montana's and can be found at a reasonable price. You listed Bahia agate, which has been one of my favorites and takes a tumble well. If you can find a nice bunch of baby Brazilian agate, they are fun to cut and there can be a lot of variety. Easy to handle on a tile saw too. Thank you very much Randy. You are one that has a fine eye for great tumbling material. India Black skin.(Note, at reasonable price) Bahia. Baby Brazilians. India Black skin can be had for $3/lb.
Bahia's are the ugly duckling...until they come out of your barrel all shiny.
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Post by captbob on Apr 20, 2017 8:32:43 GMT -5
Going slightly off topic - or still on topic but with a different angle ...
What are Brazilian agates worth? Bigish 'uns, as in softball sized or better? They aren't as expensive as Montana agates are they? Never considered buying them (still not sure they attract me) but the person that has that coral hoard here close to home has crates and crates full of those Brazilians. Old time collection.
Eyeballed them and they seem to be high quality. Worth a couple bucks a pound? Figure I could fill a 55 gal barrel for a few hundred bucks. They worth having? Not sure what I would/could do with them. Seems like they would be a boring tumble. (?)
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 8:39:08 GMT -5
No pits in the reflections of Garage Rocker 's tumbles !! Add his radiant polish. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 8:42:39 GMT -5
Going slightly off topic - or still on topic but with a different angle ... What are Brazilian agates worth? Bigish 'uns, as in softball sized or better? They aren't as expensive as Montana agates are they? Never considered buying them (still not sure they attract me) but the person that has that coral hoard here close to home has crates and crates full of those Brazilians. Old time collection. Eyeballed them and they seem to be high quality. Worth a couple bucks a pound? Figure I could fill a 55 gal barrel for a few hundred bucks. They worth having? Not sure what I would/could do with them. Seems like they would be a boring tumble. (?) If he has old stock Brazilian's you could sure buy a few and saw them. About the best way to see the quality. You can't get nice Brazilian's easily these days. Ebay is sure proud of them. |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 8:45:03 GMT -5
This well polished rock would not be so impressive if it had pits... I think it would not suit Randy to have pits and cracks.. His excellent photography would sure show the defects. See that deer on the second ridge ? verses this pitty crap(and lessor photo quality lol) |
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,718
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Post by Fossilman on Apr 20, 2017 8:51:25 GMT -5
Knock on wood,I have good luck on most rock with tumbling... The one that fights me is "Lakers" !! Those boogers put up a good fight!!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,600
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Post by jamesp on Apr 20, 2017 8:56:14 GMT -5
Knock on wood,I have good luck on most rock with tumbling... The one that fights me is "Lakers" !! Those boogers put up a good fight!! Freezing, rolling down fast rivers, crushing forces. Lots of ways a rock can get damaged Michael. |
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Post by Garage Rocker on Apr 20, 2017 8:56:56 GMT -5
James, that's why this is such an important thread for anyone just starting out. Getting good tumbling material makes all the difference in the world. I'll never understand why outfits sell newbies the starter tumbling mix they do. I got labradorite in my original mix of rocks for crying out loud. I would have given up if I thought I was suppose to get a good shine on that. Mosses and the like are fun to tumble, you have to temper your expectations, but they sure are nice to look at. Like Dave said, some materials you just have to expect a less than mirror shine, but that doesn't make them unenjoyable. A lot of self collected material is fun to tumble, but it may not be a trophy tumble, depending on what and where you are collecting. You just can't expect miracles out of subpar material.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Apr 20, 2017 9:04:00 GMT -5
Going slightly off topic - or still on topic but with a different angle ... What are Brazilian agates worth? Bigish 'uns, as in softball sized or better? They aren't as expensive as Montana agates are they? Never considered buying them (still not sure they attract me) but the person that has that coral hoard here close to home has crates and crates full of those Brazilians. Old time collection. Eyeballed them and they seem to be high quality. Worth a couple bucks a pound? Figure I could fill a 55 gal barrel for a few hundred bucks. They worth having? Not sure what I would/could do with them. Seems like they would be a boring tumble. (?) 
I've never seen plume in a Brazilian!
awesomeness
< kicking myself for seeing that offering in the For Sale section and saying "meh... Brazilian agates..." >
Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/75904/mels-blackskin-brazilian-agates?page=1#ixzz4enYqzaBJ
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