lookatthat
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Post by lookatthat on May 30, 2017 11:24:22 GMT -5
Questions, questions, questions... Would a thick slurry cushion the rocks too much, negating some of the rock+grit+rock impact?
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Post by youp50 on May 30, 2017 17:57:29 GMT -5
Thanks. One of the things I have observed in daily adding of grit, is the same rocks tend to be on the open end of the barrel. I do not recall that happening. But would notice as I try to remember the condition of those top rocks and slurry thickness every time barrel is opened. That trend would bother me. I would question the mixing action. It may have been the shape, I noticed it with some slab stuff. It may have been the tumbler is level vs tipped. It does have me thinking helix style baffle.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 5:50:36 GMT -5
Questions, questions, questions... Would a thick slurry cushion the rocks too much, negating some of the rock+grit+rock impact? This thick slurry thing first arose from anger. I would open the barrels after 5 days and have a watery slurry and the grit had not even began to break down. Zero rounding of rocks. Sharp edges remained. Mind you I was new to tumbling and was only rolling golf ball sized rocks. No education. No smalls. Bad mix. I was educated about slurry from industry and decided to put lime in the barrel to thicken the slurry and increase weight of slurry to lift the heavy SiC particles. I too was suspicious that the thick slurry would negate grind. Could not have been further from the truth. Noticed immediate results. I would do a wash and separate the rocks and slurry from the grit after a day, then two, then three. The grit was being utilized in the grind. The grit particles were being reduced and the rocks were clearly showing wear. Started studying expensive industrial colloidal slurries and found out many of them were composed of common colloidal clay. Knowing my Georgia clay is colloidal. I tried it. It worked. And my hands stopped getting burned by that damn lime. It was like portland, removes skin. For example, floating abrasives in colloidal clay to polish hard semi-conductors in this complicated patent: www.google.com/patents/US6319095"This invention relates to the field of semiconductor integrated circuits. The invention relates more particularly to an improved colloidal slurry for chemical mechanical polishing and methods of polishing using the improved colloidal slurry."
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 5:58:45 GMT -5
I do not recall that happening. But would notice as I try to remember the condition of those top rocks and slurry thickness every time barrel is opened. That trend would bother me. I would question the mixing action. It may have been the shape, I noticed it with some slab stuff. It may have been the tumbler is level vs tipped. It does have me thinking helix style baffle. You would think a long barrel skinny barrel would be more likely to separate certain size/shape rocks verses a short tall barrel. I went from 6 inch X 20 inch PVC barrels to 6 inch X 8 inch PVC barrels. figuring the walls being closer together would add more mixing. And other reasons. If barrel was 20 feet long X 6 inches diameter it would take a long time for a rock to travel from one end to the other lol, and not sure it really matters. As long as the rocks are rolling...
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Post by morerockspleaz on May 31, 2017 7:30:17 GMT -5
I too learned a long time ago, thin watery slurry, grit didn't break down. Tried less water, that didn't work. Tried more grit that didn't work. My answer was to use lots of sandstone type material to achieve a thicker slurry. Moving on now I use a little plain clay cat litter and some pea gravel. Get a thicker slurry, better grind and the smalls irritate the bigger rocks, getting into smaller places on the rocks. So I see better results with a thick slurry. That's what I learned but I am open to making any changes that will speed things along. Waiting on the King of tumbles to bring me more knowledge jamesp .
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Post by youp50 on May 31, 2017 7:45:56 GMT -5
Advantages of a thick slurry;
1) Slurry keeps grit in suspension, available to the grinding surfaces of rock on rock, achieving a satisfactory grind in less time.
2) Slurry holds rocks close together, no great falls, less bruising.
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Post by 1dave on May 31, 2017 8:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on May 31, 2017 9:12:15 GMT -5
Clay minerals group Halloysite – Al2Si2O5(OH)4 - Needle structure (metamorphic) Kaolinite – Al2Si2O5(OH)4 - China ware Illite – (K,H3O)(Al,Mg,Fe)2(Si,Al)4O10[(OH)2,(H2O)] Montmorillonite – (Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2Si4O10(OH)2·nH2O * Sodium Bentonite - swelling with water * Calcium Bentonite - non swelling Vermiculite – (MgFe,Al)3(Al,Si)4O10(OH)2·4H2O - 9Zonolite) Expands when heated Talc – Mg3Si4O10(OH)2 - Soapstone, baby powder Sepiolite – Mg4Si6O15(OH)2·6H2O = Meerschaum Palygorskite (or Attapulgite) – (Mg,Al)2Si4O10(OH)·4(H2O) - used to treat diarrhea. Pyrophyllite – Al2Si4O10(OH)2 - swells many times with heat Fuller's earth consists primarily of hydrous aluminum silicates (clay minerals) of varying composition.[1] Common components are montmorillonite, kaolinite and attapulgite. Small amounts of other minerals may be present in fuller's earth deposits, including calcite, dolomite, and quartz. In some localities fuller's earth refers to calcium bentonite, which is altered volcanic ash composed mostly of montmorillonite.[2][8] Sepiolite = Meerschaum
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Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 11:23:21 GMT -5
Warm mud ummmm Throw a cement vibrater in on the other side of the pond of warm clay..Ahhhh What if it hardens in private parts? hehehehe They using something like a "monitor" to water dredge the banks into the holding pond and the floating pump to keep it in motion? Be an inexpensive way to mine. Leave it to the southern boys to get it right.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 11:50:45 GMT -5
They using something like a "monitor" to water dredge the banks into the holding pond and the floating pump to keep it in motion? Be an inexpensive way to mine. Leave it to the southern boys to get it right.
The pump is for de-watering Cliff. The tool of choice for digging is a hunker drag line:
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Post by wigglinrocks on May 31, 2017 11:58:10 GMT -5
They using something like a "monitor" to water dredge the banks into the holding pond and the floating pump to keep it in motion? Be an inexpensive way to mine. Leave it to the southern boys to get it right.
The pump is for de-watering Cliff. The tool of choice for digging is a hunker drag line: One scoop from the should keep the slurry thick for awhile .
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 13:14:58 GMT -5
Ha morerockspleaz, king james, there'd be some laughing in the background. I'm like you, I figured out the slurry thing due to water not circulating the grit.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 13:23:36 GMT -5
1dave, the chemistry of clay is quite complicated. But any clay is worth trying. I use a lot of clay, surprising. Lime worked fine to except the alkalinity was not agreeable to the epidermis. The lime like coating tumbled off of small corals was neutral: Made the purdiest milk of magnesia slurry white hand
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Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 13:24:16 GMT -5
They using something like a "monitor" to water dredge the banks into the holding pond and the floating pump to keep it in motion? Be an inexpensive way to mine. Leave it to the southern boys to get it right.
The pump is for de-watering Cliff. The tool of choice for digging is a hunker drag line: Whoa.. Huge volume and must load barges?? Lot of ground water there huh?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 13:25:43 GMT -5
Advantages of a thick slurry; 1) Slurry keeps grit in suspension, available to the grinding surfaces of rock on rock, achieving a satisfactory grind in less time. 2) Slurry holds rocks close together, no great falls, less bruising. well put youp
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Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 13:25:47 GMT -5
1dave , the chemistry of clay is quite complicated. But any clay is worth trying. I use a lot of clay, surprising. Lime worked fine to except the alkalinity was not agreeable to the epidermis. The lime like coating tumbled off of small corals was neutral: Made the purdiest milk of magnesia slurry white hand No chemical reaction to change colors of the tumble?
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Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 13:27:37 GMT -5
Ha morerockspleaz , king james, there'd be some laughing in the background. I'm like you, I figured out the slurry thing due to water not circulating the grit. Yes King James.. We might start calling you Moses for leading us from the desert and to colloidal slurry.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 13:41:15 GMT -5
The pump is for de-watering Cliff. The tool of choice for digging is a hunker drag line: Whoa.. Huge volume and must load barges?? Lot of ground water there huh? Used to take dates to them. Get em in that hot clay and it's all over. The water color, redneck Bahamas
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Post by morerockspleaz on May 31, 2017 13:51:29 GMT -5
Ha morerockspleaz, king james, there'd be some laughing in the background. I'm like you, I figured out the slurry thing due to water not circulating the grit. To me the grit in just water was like throwing sand at it, not stinking to and causing friction and wear. Okay a simple thought. You put your feet in a sandy running creek and the water and sand tickle your feet. You put your foot in a running creek with clay and then you are stuck until you wiggle free.
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Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 15:21:34 GMT -5
jamespyoup50morerockspleazI've been following your discussion about the benefits of thickened coarse grind slurries, and it caused a light bulb to come on. Now, it's not a totally new concept for me, after seeing earlier threads, and I've been using dried sediment as my thickener when I do my cleanouts. Since doing so, I've been pretty happy with the results. Nothing new there. What was frustrating for me, before I tried a thickener, was how unsuccessful I was in doing a recharge after a few days. I had "thought" the grit had broken down sufficiently to warrant a recharge, but later on I found that everything had caked at the bottom of the barrel and needed to be scraped from the bottom during the weekly cleanout. With such results, I simply went back to doing weekly cleanouts and then proceeded to adding thickener to the regimen. In hindsight, and after seeing your discussion(s), perhaps it's time to experiment with recharging again. Why? I now have a much thicker slurry that the grit will be added to, it will be held better in suspension, and everything won't' immediately settle to the bottom of the barrel and cake, as opposed to adding new grit to a too watery slurry like I had in the past. Sound about right? I'm not looking forward to additional cleaning of the lids and seals, but this might be worth playing with for a bit. Regards. Dave
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