|
Post by captbob on May 31, 2017 15:52:13 GMT -5
What was frustrating for me, before I tried a thickener, was how unsuccessful I was in doing a recharge after a few days. I had "thought" the grit had broken down sufficiently to warrant a recharge, but later on I found that everything had caked at the bottom of the barrel and needed to be scraped from the bottom during the weekly cleanout. Dave The grit at the bottom of the barrel was not there during the tumble. It settled (quickly!) when you removed the barrel from the tumbler and set it upright to open the barrel. Think on it... why would there be caked grit on one end when you opened the barrel and not the other?
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 15:59:13 GMT -5
What was frustrating for me, before I tried a thickener, was how unsuccessful I was in doing a recharge after a few days. I had "thought" the grit had broken down sufficiently to warrant a recharge, but later on I found that everything had caked at the bottom of the barrel and needed to be scraped from the bottom during the weekly cleanout. Dave The grit at the bottom of the barrel was not there during the tumble. It settled (quickly!) when you removed the barrel from the tumbler and set it upright to open the barrel. Think on it... why would there be caked grit on one end when you opened the barrel and not the other? Completely understood. I knew gravity was the culprit...perhaps the grit was not as broken down as much as I thought it was. In comparison, and I guess what I was asking about (or theorizing), the thicker slurry that I now have would not allow things to settle as quickly and not be as prone to caking as when the slurry was too watery. Dave
|
|
|
Post by morerockspleaz on May 31, 2017 16:07:49 GMT -5
aDave you are right every time I set the barrel upright with just water and grit in it, it would sink to the bottom. So you rock along adding grit, well some is stuck at the bottom and that's where it stays. You end up scraping it out. I tried various ways to get the thick slurry I wanted. I truly don't remember how long its been since I have used cat litter. Its cheap and user friendly. Since I basically shape in the rotary I prefer to do weekly clean outs so I don't have to clean the barrel lip. I will be curious to see all the results. I can basically hear my barrels and instinctively know they used up the grit. They just sound different. I was a slow typer captbob beat me too it.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 16:17:57 GMT -5
aDave you are right every time I set the barrel upright with just water and grit in it, it would sink to the bottom. So you rock along adding grit, well some is stuck at the bottom and that's where it stays. You end up scraping it out. I tried various ways to get the thick slurry I wanted. I truly don't remember how long its been since I have used cat litter. Its cheap and user friendly. Since I basically shape in the rotary I prefer to do weekly clean outs so I don't have to clean the barrel lip. I will be curious to see all the results. I can basically hear my barrels and instinctively know they used up the grit. They just sound different. You hit on the worst part of the recharge...the cleaning of the lid and lip. Total cleanouts are certainly much easier. I'm not set on trying recharges...my post was more an observation than anything else. I've been happy opening up barrels now that have a decent slurry and the grit is all gone (with the powdered thickener added). Sure, I might reduce some processing time, but that's about it if I started recharging. However, it will also add a bit more work. Just have to figure out which is more important, as I can have as many as 4 barrels going in various stages. A QT-66 handles the perpetual coarse grinds now; 45C's are what I am using for the following stages. Dave
|
|
|
Post by captbob on May 31, 2017 16:27:05 GMT -5
Cleaning the lid ought not be a problem as it is separate and can just be hosed off. The lip... I find using a spray bottle to be helpful. (I do clean outs outside) Spray any grit off the lip/rim with your bottle = easy clean up. What goes outside the barrel can be hosed right off and what goes back in the barrel is no big deal - if you are doing a recharge. The spray bottle cleans it right up and doesn't add enough water to the barrel contents to make a difference.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 18:54:03 GMT -5
Suspension is the trick. I like immediate suspension aDave. So I add the clay right at the initial charge. No wait for slurry development.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 19:14:54 GMT -5
Suspension is the trick. I like immediate suspension aDave . So I add the clay right at the initial charge. No wait for slurry development. And that is when I am adding mine as well - grit, water, and thickener at the same time at every cleanout. It was the fact that I am now dealing with thicker slurry which made think about my past unsuccessful recharge attempts. It's clear to me now that it was much easier for gravity to work amid a watery slurry and cake everything at the bottom while doing the recharge. I'm thinking a thick slurry would slow that process, or at least diminish it some. Dave
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on May 31, 2017 20:27:00 GMT -5
Suspension is the trick. I like immediate suspension aDave . So I add the clay right at the initial charge. No wait for slurry development. And that is when I am adding mine as well - grit, water, and thickener at the same time at every cleanout. It was the fact that I am now dealing with thicker slurry which made think about my past unsuccessful recharge attempts. It's clear to me now that it was much easier for gravity to work amid a watery slurry and cake everything at the bottom while doing the recharge. I'm thinking a thick slurry would slow that process, or at least diminish it some. Dave "There was Carnegie’s steel. Rockefeller’s oil. And Huber’s ink." JM Huber figured out how to suspend dye using clays. www.huber.com/about-us/fact-sheet/
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 20:36:52 GMT -5
Suspension is the trick. I like immediate suspension aDave . So I add the clay right at the initial charge. No wait for slurry development. And that is when I am adding mine as well - grit, water, and thickener at the same time at every cleanout. It was the fact that I am now dealing with thicker slurry which made think about my past unsuccessful recharge attempts. It's clear to me now that it was much easier for gravity to work amid a watery slurry and cake everything at the bottom while doing the recharge. I'm thinking a thick slurry would slow that process, or at least diminish it some. Dave What you running for a thickener aDave/Clay based cat litter>
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 20:39:16 GMT -5
And that is when I am adding mine as well - grit, water, and thickener at the same time at every cleanout. It was the fact that I am now dealing with thicker slurry which made think about my past unsuccessful recharge attempts. It's clear to me now that it was much easier for gravity to work amid a watery slurry and cake everything at the bottom while doing the recharge. I'm thinking a thick slurry would slow that process, or at least diminish it some. Dave What you running for a thickener aDave/Clay based cat litter> Old dried slurry. Barrels are dumped into a bucket, sediment settles, and water is poured off. Sediment cake is allowed to dry and is ground up. Dave
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 22:23:17 GMT -5
What you running for a thickener aDave/Clay based cat litter> Old dried slurry. Barrels are dumped into a bucket, sediment settles, and water is poured off. Sediment cake is allowed to dry and is ground up. Dave Don't that put some unused grit into a finer stage or do you separate the stages? Got the box packed Mail tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 23:11:59 GMT -5
Old dried slurry. Barrels are dumped into a bucket, sediment settles, and water is poured off. Sediment cake is allowed to dry and is ground up. Dave Don't that put some unused grit into a finer stage or do you separate the stages? Got the box packed Mail tomorrow.
As of now, I am only using it in the coarse stage. I've not seen too much of a need in the subsequent stages, as I use plastic pellets which helps carry the finer grits. You know the box is not necessary. Appreciated nonetheless. Dave
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on May 31, 2017 23:14:08 GMT -5
As of now, I am only using it in the coarse stage. I've not seen too much of a need in the subsequent stages, as I use plastic pellets which helps carry the finer grits. You know the box is not necessary. Appreciated nonetheless. DaveUse plastic in a vibe?? You'll love the box.. grin..
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 31, 2017 23:16:04 GMT -5
As of now, I am only using it in the coarse stage. I've not seen too much of a need in the subsequent stages, as I use plastic pellets which helps carry the finer grits. You know the box is not necessary. Appreciated nonetheless. DaveUse plastic in a vibe?? You'll love the box.. grin.. I'm sure it will be great. I only have rotaries...no vibe.
|
|
|
Post by gmitch067 on Jun 1, 2017 1:12:17 GMT -5
I am on my first vibe load and am learning the ropes. Is lack of colloidal suspension of grit a problem with vibe loads also - or is it just an issue associated with running the initial 80 grit load in a rotary tumbler?
I ran into a lot of problems with my first UV-10 load because I happened to choose Amazonite and Moonstones as the rocks - feldspar!!! The thick slurry generated in my 220 grit initial vibe was so thick it froze the action (see my thread "Recovery for adding too much water to UV-10"). Sooo... I obviously did not have to add Kitty Litter to THAT vibe load - LOL! But is this something I will need to look out for during future 220 grit loads on my UV-10?
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Jun 1, 2017 1:55:36 GMT -5
I am on my first vibe load and am learning the ropes. Is lack of colloidal suspension of grit a problem with vibe loads also - or is it just an issue associated with running the initial 80 grit load in a rotary tumbler? I ran into a lot of problems with my first UV-10 load because I happened to choose Amazonite and Moonstones as the rocks - feldspar!!! The thick slurry generated in my 220 grit initial vibe was so thick it froze the action (see my thread "Recovery for adding too much water to UV-10"). Sooo... I obviously did not have to add Kitty Litter to THAT vibe load - LOL! But is this something I will need to look out for during future 220 grit loads on my UV-10? I think rotary only.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 1, 2017 5:43:09 GMT -5
Yes, rotary only. For coarse grind in rotary. When using larger grit that is susceptible to not circulating.
If refined silica free colloidal clay could be found then it would be perfect for padding rocks in 220-500-1000-14,000 in ROTARY. Raw colloidal clay about always has silica which messes up polish.
I believe the kaolin industry refines silica out of kaolin, must research.
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Jun 1, 2017 6:41:15 GMT -5
Am I missing something on barrel and lid cleaning?
First, I am only grinding agates, jaspers, and quartz/ites which are not much for generating gas. I just wipe the edge of the lid and lip of the barrel and stick them back together. Its got to be a serious misalignment to let that slurry leak out.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Jun 1, 2017 7:07:13 GMT -5
Yes, rotary only. For coarse grind in rotary. When using larger grit that is susceptible to not circulating. If refined silica free colloidal clay could be found then it would be perfect for padding rocks in 220-500-1000-14,000 in ROTARY. Raw colloidal clay about always has silica which messes up polish. I believe the kaolin industry refines silica out of kaolin, must research. GOOD post - in that this clay / kitty litter thickener is to be used only for your coarser grits. Not sure everyone is following that. The clay / kitty liter has "stuff" in it that will be coarser than your grit(s)/polish once you get past some undetermined point. I don't go with using thickeners, but if I did, I wouldn't use it past 120/220 grit. I've seen the clay used for cosmetic purposes, which may be silica free. Stupid expensive for tumbler use. Gotta be something which could be used as a (silica free) replacement, just haven't discovered it yet. Mr. Jim uses the clay because (I imagine) because it's a local resource to him there for the taking.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 1, 2017 8:19:03 GMT -5
Yep, just as Bob says. *coarse grind(probably 220) Most colloidal clay in this area is felspar.
Next question, would pure felspar based clay scuff up a 14,000 polished finish ?
Don't know that one.
|
|