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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 27, 2020 11:35:26 GMT -5
I really like the colors and patterns on the last 3 pictures.😍 I took those shots with my phone and they look great on my phone but the colors are washed out on my new laptop. I took pics of my recent cabs last night...they looked great on my phone, but I thought they looked like crap once I posted them...well, not coprolite, just the figurative kind!
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Post by RickB on Dec 27, 2020 14:38:00 GMT -5
RWA3006 Have you ever seen or found any Native American tools/points made from coprolite? Just curious as it looks like it could be worked, especially if heat treated.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 19:37:38 GMT -5
RWA3006 Have you ever seen or found any Native American tools/points made from coprolite? Just curious as it looks like it could be worked, especially if heat treated. Yes, I've found a lot of sites where the ancients harvested vast quantities of flakes from chunks of coprolite as if they were nodules of chert, flint, jasper, agate, etc. It doesn't surprise me because the coprolites in my area are mostly just gobs of agate. Mostly I've found a few scrapers and projectile points that were flawed and discarded. If you visit many knapping sites in the Rocky Mountain area you will notice a few common denominators of what ancient man preferred in such a location. First of all an abundance of knapping material was needed and a water source nearby was a nice bonus too. One of the main things I've noticed about sites I've found is they usually face South and are on hill sides that are comfortable to sit on. I hypothesize this was usually taking place in winter months because of the South facing orientations that are so common. There's no question these folks liked to sit on a sandy hill side with their feet facing downhill while they worked on the rocks. Often it was adjacent to a small boulder that could be used as a table to place coprolites upon and then strike them with tough quartzite hammer stones to harvest flakes. I've often found almost all of the coprolites in small areas about the size of a volleyball court to be battered to bits so that it was impossible for me to harvest intact specimens. In fact last spring I entered a new to me area that had a very high concentration of coprolites and as I got near I noticed ALL of them had been broken up. My first reaction was to curse the idiot rock hounds who ruined them all and then I realized it was not contemporary rock hounds, but ancients is search of flakes. The obvious evidence was the presence of cores and hammer stones laying all over the place among piles of flakes. I'll dig for some interesting photos to share on this topic...
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 19:49:26 GMT -5
Here's a coprolite core discarded long ago by a long forgotten knapper.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 19:51:45 GMT -5
Here's another core.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 19:53:53 GMT -5
Colorful flakes struck from a coprolite.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 20:01:51 GMT -5
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 20:11:00 GMT -5
Here's where somebody got busy striking flakes off coprolites. All the light colored flakes came from coprolites.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 20:13:39 GMT -5
Look closely on the boulder at 11 o'clock in above photo and you'll see a pile of flakes just as they were left on the table.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 20:21:27 GMT -5
Here's a big coprolite that had been battered to harvest flakes. They gave up and left most of it intact.
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Post by RickB on Dec 27, 2020 21:21:19 GMT -5
I had a feeling that early man had some good material to work with there. The coprolite just has that look about it. Much of that debitage I see could be used to make a point or tool with. When you have as much material to work with as they did, the indians would be as selective as they wanted and keep only the best flakes and spalls. Thanks for sharing these photos and your input.
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Post by stephan on Dec 27, 2020 22:48:56 GMT -5
This is one of the rarest colors I've found. Many are blackish on the exterior but it's only surface color. I sold this one before I realized the black agate interior was scarce. I have many more to cut so maybe I'll get another black interior. Huh! I see some resemblance to this: IMG_2579_Faced unknown jasper by Stephan T., on Flickr Unfortunately. when I got it, it was already cut, so there is little exterior to go by....
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 23:36:55 GMT -5
I had a feeling that early man had some good material to work with there. The coprolite just has that look about it. Much of that debitage I see could be used to make a point or tool with. When you have as much material to work with as they did, the indians would be as selective as they wanted and keep only the best flakes and spalls. Thanks for sharing these photos and your input. Exactly this. This coprolite area produced specimens that are for the most part highly agatized and it was easy to just sit down and strike off a bunch of spalls and then take your pick. I've tried my hand at knapping them and they respond like plain old agate. I've also heat treated it and it makes it easier to knapp just like a lot of other material. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any significantly brighter colors from the heat treating process.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 27, 2020 23:40:23 GMT -5
stephan the resemblance is very close isn't it. Can you detect any gastroliths in it?
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Post by stephan on Dec 27, 2020 23:48:25 GMT -5
I’ll have to look. Another parallel is that I cut it and sold/gave away the slabs (except one). It’s more chocolate brown than black, though.
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Post by fernwood on Dec 28, 2020 6:04:20 GMT -5
What a discovery. A mobile workshop for making points/tools.
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Post by RickB on Dec 28, 2020 7:45:14 GMT -5
I had a feeling that early man had some good material to work with there. The coprolite just has that look about it. Much of that debitage I see could be used to make a point or tool with. When you have as much material to work with as they did, the indians would be as selective as they wanted and keep only the best flakes and spalls. Thanks for sharing these photos and your input. Exactly this. This coprolite area produced specimens that are for the most part highly agatized and it was easy to just sit down and strike off a bunch of spalls and then take your pick. I've tried my hand at knapping them and they respond like plain old agate. I've also heat treated it and it makes it easier to knapp just like a lot of other material. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any significantly brighter colors from the heat treating process. Many rocks won't change color or change very little when heated. Some will change on the surface only unless they are heat treated for an extended period of time. Here's a couple excellent heat treated points made by a master knapper. The first one is coprolite and the second point is dinosaur bone. I don't know if heat treating enhanced the color or not of the two points he shows but he was able to get some very nice flaking done due to the enhancement of workability. lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2010maydinosaurpointspage1.htm
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 28, 2020 8:35:31 GMT -5
I know it wasn't coprolite...but...when I first started hounding this summer, I ran across a rock out at Railroad Buttes that I'm still kicking myself for not picking up, but it was larger than I wanted to carry around in my backpack at the time. It was clearly a piece that spalls had been taken off around the entire perimeter of the rock. It wasn't "broken" by cows like I see a lot of other rocks in that area. It was clearly evidence of someone using it to acquire tools. I know the general vicinity of where I saw that rock. I might have to see if I can find that one again...amongst the 1.683 billion other ones in that area...
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Dec 28, 2020 9:16:13 GMT -5
Exactly this. This coprolite area produced specimens that are for the most part highly agatized and it was easy to just sit down and strike off a bunch of spalls and then take your pick. I've tried my hand at knapping them and they respond like plain old agate. I've also heat treated it and it makes it easier to knapp just like a lot of other material. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any significantly brighter colors from the heat treating process. Many rocks won't change color or change very little when heated. Some will change on the surface only unless they are heat treated for an extended period of time. Here's a couple excellent heat treated points made by a master knapper. The first one is coprolite and the second point is dinosaur bone. I don't know if heat treating enhanced the color or not of the two points he shows but he was able to get some very nice flaking done due to the enhancement of workability. lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2010maydinosaurpointspage1.htmThanks for that link. I thought it was impressive how that guy was able to get great results from two materials that tend to not be ideally homogenous. Undoubtedly skillful heat treating was important on his projects. Much of the coprolite I find is highly agatized but has regions of calcium carbonates and other non silicified material that hinder knapping. This contributes to quite a bit of undercutting when I polish the faces of a specimen.
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Post by RickB on Dec 28, 2020 9:25:44 GMT -5
"Thanks for that link. I thought it was impressive how that guy was able to get great results from two materials that tend to not be ideally homogenous. Undoubtedly skillful heat treating was important on his projects. Much of the coprolite I find is highly agatized but has regions of calcium carbonates and other non silicified material that hinder knapping. This contributes to quite a bit of undercutting when I polish the faces feces of a specimen."
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