What's with the "old stock" obsession?

[holajonathan]

Why do people assume that "old stock," i.e., rocks mined / picked a long time ago, are better than rocks recently mined / picked?  

I understand that some materials are no longer being mined, either because of lack of access or because the known deposit was depleted.  If mining stopped a long time ago, then by definition, all material is old stock.  And being old stock would say nothing about quality.  

For rocks that are still being mined or picked, why would old stock necessarily be better? 

Is the assumption that the best material was mined or picked a long ago, and all that's left is lower grade?  If so, that can't possibly be true as a general rule. 

With nodular agates like Montana agates, Lake Superior agates, or SD prairie agates, for example, what is the likelihood that a nodule found on the bank of a river 50 years ago is any better or different than a nodule found in the same place today?

As for agates being mined, like many Mexican agates, Moroccan agates, etc, it can't possibly be true that all the good material was found and mined decades ago. 

With improved technology and equipment, I suspect that there is as much if not more high quality agate being mined today than ever before.  Most of the newly mined Mexican agates I have bought from Texas dealers are very solid and good looking material.  I haven't compared them to "old stock" Mexican agates, but it's hard to believe that what I have is all B grade.   And even the fancy nodular Mexican agates like Lagunas and Coyamitos continue to be mined.  And many of the recently mined ones are absolutely amazing.   

What am I missing?  Why do people love to talk about "old stock" material that they supposedly got from the grandson of the guy who worked in a mine in the 1950s or from some other obscure source?  It sounds to me like "good ole days" folklore / marketing. 

But I am probably missing something.  Please enlighten me.  

[greig]

Most of the areas that I collect were originally high graded (the best and easy taken) and later the marginal picked clean. One can still get into decent material with digging or turning over of mine waste rock, but this is limited by the amount of work required. Everything (both high grade and marginal) is grabbed.

[NevadaBill]

Some of the older material is simply not really found any longer. Especially material native to America. Probably why it is so popular to source exciting material from other parts of the globe these days. The far reaches are really where the new really good stuff is found.

Cost could be another. The cost of quality stone has skyrocketed from what I've seen.

Had you not mentioned this topic though, I probably would have not considered this myself however. But I am new to the hobby as well.

[rockjunquie]

It is true that some older material is better. For instance, if I say old stock for ocean jasper, there will be a marked difference between mine and many of which you might find now. It is mined out and the earlier digs had the best material. What's left and what you typically see offered now- especially on ebay- is trash.

I just recently got an old slab of Graveyard Point Plume. It is nothing like what you would typically find. It has tons of marcasite at the base of very well defined and elegant white plumes. The difference between it and most others I've seen, had and cut is marked.

But, I do see a lot of people who just throw that term out as if to claim their rock is better. I don't think a lot of it is actually from early digs. I do think it is marketing for the vast majority of it.

[holajonathan]

Jan 23, 2021 21:27:25 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

It is true that some older material is better. For instance, if I say old stock for ocean jasper, there will be a marked difference between mine and many of which you might find now. It is mined out and the earlier digs had the best material. What's left and what you typically see offered now- especially on ebay- is trash.

I just recently got an old slab of Graveyard Point Plume. It is nothing like what you would typically find. It has tons of marcasite at the base of very well defined and elegant white plumes. The difference between it and most others I've seen, had and cut is marked.

But, I do see a lot of people who just throw that term out as if to claim their rock is better. I don't think a lot of it is actually from early digs. I do think it is marketing for the vast majority of it.

This is a good explanation that makes sense.  Thank you.  Do you have a photo of your "old" ocean jasper?  I know first hand that what is now offered it not good.  

I guess I don't know enough about how / where lapidary rocks are mined.  I understand that the easy to grab, top quality stuff was no doubt exhausted long along ago.  But I guess I assumed that this was just the tip of the iceberg.  In other words, I would have thought that there is a lot more high quality material that was relatively inaccessible 40 or 50 years ago, but can be located and mined more efficiently today.  I have seen videos from Mexico of people pulling chunks of agates out of the ground with a backhoe, not a complicated or particularly expensive piece of equipment.  Two of the six people who live on my street have one parked in their yards...   

Maybe once the high quality easy to grab stuff was exhausted, the economics just don't add up to actually dig for more in this country on a commercial scale.  But in countries with less economic opportunity (Mexico / Botswana / Morocco / India, for example), people are happy to spend a lot of time digging for rocks that aren't really worth all that much if you actually plan to make a living at it.    At least not all that much by our standards, but perhaps a decent living by their standards.

[holajonathan]

Jan 23, 2021 21:27:25 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

It is true that some older material is better. For instance, if I say old stock for ocean jasper, there will be a marked difference between mine and many of which you might find now. It is mined out and the earlier digs had the best material. What's left and what you typically see offered now- especially on ebay- is trash.

I just recently got an old slab of Graveyard Point Plume. It is nothing like what you would typically find. It has tons of marcasite at the base of very well defined and elegant white plumes. The difference between it and most others I've seen, had and cut is marked.

But, I do see a lot of people who just throw that term out as if to claim their rock is better. I don't think a lot of it is actually from early digs. I do think it is marketing for the vast majority of it.

"But, I do see a lot of people who just throw that term out as if to claim their rock is better."

-- This is what motivated me to write my original rambling post.  I am sick of seeing clearly low quality rocks on Ebay with the words "Old Stock" displayed prominently in the title and the listing.  Why should I care how old stock it is if it's junk?  Anyway, I got that off my chest and I'll settle down now.  

[stonemon]

And then there is also the reality that it could just be a statement of when the material was collected. No claim of better quality or some other marketing ploy.
The term is used a lot and not always with integrity. When I use the term, it refers to when it was gathered. Nothing else...

[rockjunquie]

If you haven't been at this for awhile, then you probably aren't real familiar with the types of rocks that were (or, are, for all practical purposes) mined out. Lots of very traditional favorite American material is gone except for what is in collections and slowly sold off due to old age, deaths, downsizing, etc. When some "new" material pops up for sale it is usually called old stock. A few that come to mind are Biggs and Bruneau.

Because a lot of equipment is pulling up agates, it doesn't mean they are the popular, old, high quality NAMED material. But, new "favorites" are also being found. They will be named and the early digs of it will likely be better material. Veins aren't infinite. Runs DO run out.

It is terribly misleading to call something old stock when it's not. I see it all the time. It's up to the buyer to beware.

Here's a link for OJ that has some good pictures of the good stuff.  www.oceanjasper.org/

[rockpickerforever]

Jan 24, 2021 0:24:07 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

If you haven't been at this for awhile, then you probably aren't real familiar with the types of rocks that were (or, are, for all practical purposes) mined out. Lots of very traditional favorite American material is gone except for what is in collections and slowly sold off due to old age, deaths, downsizing, etc. When some "new" material pops up for sale it is usually called old stock. A few that come to mind are Biggs and Bruneau.

Because a lot of equipment is pulling up agates, it doesn't mean they are the popular, old, high quality NAMED material. But, new "favorites" are also being found. They will be named and the early digs of it will likely be better material. Veins aren't infinite. Runs DO run out.

It is terribly misleading to call something old stock when it's not. I see it all the time. It's up to the buyer to beware.

Here's a link for OJ that has some good pictures of the good stuff.  www.oceanjasper.org/

Thanks for the OJ link, Tela. That's some mighty fine looking eye candy!

[parfive]

Nowadays, anything nice I dig up in the yard goes in the bucket marked

                New & Improved Rock 2.0     

[Brian]

Jan 24, 2021 0:24:07 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

If you haven't been at this for awhile, then you probably aren't real familiar with the types of rocks that were (or, are, for all practical purposes) mined out. Lots of very traditional favorite American material is gone except for what is in collections and slowly sold off due to old age, deaths, downsizing, etc. When some "new" material pops up for sale it is usually called old stock. A few that come to mind are Biggs and Bruneau.

Because a lot of equipment is pulling up agates, it doesn't mean they are the popular, old, high quality NAMED material. But, new "favorites" are also being found. They will be named and the early digs of it will likely be better material. Veins aren't infinite. Runs DO run out.

It is terribly misleading to call something old stock when it's not. I see it all the time. It's up to the buyer to beware.

Here's a link for OJ that has some good pictures of the good stuff.  www.oceanjasper.org/

Just to throw my two cents out there, the term “new old stock” also seems to be trying to ride on the coattails of the draw for estate sales.

Estate sales are also generally “old stock” but also carry the extra benefit of potentially being curated old stock, where you are likely to find excellent samples that were worth holding on to until the literal end. I’ve looked at quite a few pictures from estate sales and some of those rocks are truly amazing.

When someone says “old stock”, I admit that my mind wanders immediately to that type of curated collection. The reality is “new old stock” more likely implies that it is truly old stock that nobody wanted and is still sitting around. Taken at face value, “new old stock” may be best thought of as unwanted leftovers. Unfortunately, there is still the hope that it is simply overlooked or hoarded leftovers that makes it a great marketing tool.

[hummingbirdstones2]

Yeah, estate buys are a chance to pick up leftovers - or even rejects - from when the best material was available. Many of the "rejects" from those times can be far better than what might be found now from the same deposits.

[rockhoundoz]

Another factor in the old-stock nostalgia could be material from locations that were closed to collecting some time ago. Locations closed when Death Valley became a National Park for instance, a lot of cave formation stuff, much more limited collecting of dino bone due to rule changes etc.

Since no(or much less) new material is available, it doesn't directly apply to the original question, but I think it 'colors' people perception of old-stock, towards the mythical 🦖

[stardiamond]

My definition of old stock is material that was dug in the past and is no longer being dug. Anything that is now hard to find. Blue Biggs, Tahoma.
The Morgan Hill I bought 20 years ago is generally hard to find, but Paul's MHPJ is much nicer.

[stephan]

Sometimes it indicates that the material was collected when the site was still legally open to such activities. Sometimes, on private property, new owners don't allow collecting (like many of the Morgan Hill sites), so old stock can indicate that, functionally, there is little or no such thing as "new stock," for one reason or another. Other times it is, as people have mentioned, an indication that the material SHOULD be higher quality. There is plenty of "old stock" garbage, too, though, so sometimes it is a marketing, umm, tool? ploy? Take your pick.

[Rockoonz]

Lapidary rocks are a commodity, and subject to the laws of supply and demand. As stock dwindles, price rises.
New finds can fetch a premium as well until demand recedes.
So many miners nowadays will tell you the supply is running out when the price begins to drop just to create a demand, shut it down for awhile, then "discover" more later.

[stephan]

Jan 24, 2021 9:30:37 GMT -5 Brian said:

Jan 24, 2021 0:24:07 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

If you haven't been at this for awhile, then you probably aren't real familiar with the types of rocks that were (or, are, for all practical purposes) mined out. Lots of very traditional favorite American material is gone except for what is in collections and slowly sold off due to old age, deaths, downsizing, etc. When some "new" material pops up for sale it is usually called old stock. A few that come to mind are Biggs and Bruneau.

Because a lot of equipment is pulling up agates, it doesn't mean they are the popular, old, high quality NAMED material. But, new "favorites" are also being found. They will be named and the early digs of it will likely be better material. Veins aren't infinite. Runs DO run out.

It is terribly misleading to call something old stock when it's not. I see it all the time. It's up to the buyer to beware.

Here's a link for OJ that has some good pictures of the good stuff.  www.oceanjasper.org/

Just to throw my two cents out there, the term “new old stock” also seems to be trying to ride on the coattails of the draw for estate sales.

Estate sales are also generally “old stock” but also carry the extra benefit of potentially being curated old stock, where you are likely to find excellent samples that were worth holding on to until the literal end. I’ve looked at quite a few pictures from estate sales and some of those rocks are truly amazing.

When someone says “old stock”, I admit that my mind wanders immediately to that type of curated collection. The reality is “new old stock” more likely implies that it is truly old stock that nobody wanted and is still sitting around. Taken at face value, “new old stock” may be best thought of as unwanted leftovers. Unfortunately, there is still the hope that it is simply overlooked or hoarded leftovers that makes it a great marketing tool.

LOL. I have bought material at two estate sales. Neither was “well curated,” which probably means that I got a better price, since the kids didn’t know (or care) what they were selling off. Got a nice haul for a few hundred bucks. There were definitely leaverites that had me wondering why on earth anyone would have bothered to lug them home. Some were curiosities (like chiastolites), and some were hidden treasures (Stone Canyon and Morgan Hill) material so coated with dirt that I didn’t know what I had until it had been cleaned several months later (this is the old stock I got), and some sadly abused material (calcite, rhodonite, etc., stored in old Yuban cans that happily shared their rust), and the old stand-by: material criminally sprayed with varnish that has started to yellow.

Had the material been well-curated, I probably would have spent more more, had less rock, and definitely fewer cool surprises

[jasoninsd]

There's a slab of "old stock" Ocean Jasper on eBay right now sitting at $227.50, with 15 bids on it...one 10"x7"x0.25" slab...

(I'm not affiliated with the sale at all...just thought it was apropos to the thread...)

[stephan]

Jan 28, 2021 0:02:15 GMT -5 jasoninsd said:

There's a slab of "old stock" Ocean Jasper on eBay right now sitting at $227.50, with 15 bids on it...one 10"x7"x0.25" slab...

(I'm not affiliated with the sale at all...just thought it was apropos to the thread...)

There’s also a 13”x8” egg for $1500, and it’s cracked and pitted all over (and it isn’t even called “old stock”). Sheesh.

[jasoninsd]

Jan 28, 2021 0:33:14 GMT -5 stephan said:

Jan 28, 2021 0:02:15 GMT -5 jasoninsd said:

There's a slab of "old stock" Ocean Jasper on eBay right now sitting at $227.50, with 15 bids on it...one 10"x7"x0.25" slab...

(I'm not affiliated with the sale at all...just thought it was apropos to the thread...)

There’s also a 13”x8” egg for $1500, and it’s cracked and pitted all over (and it isn’t even called “old stock”). Sheesh.

I saw that too! LOL