saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 6, 2021 11:45:50 GMT -5
Hello all! I hope everyone is doing well - I've been absent quite awhile with work / COVID lately, but I'm hoping to get back into some good tumbling this spring when it warms up. That said - I am wanting to upgrade from my hardware store tile saw that I use to cut and shape all my tumbles before stage 1. I keep having issues with the motors burning out on these cheap saws and I know they aren't as safe as a lapidary saw is. I have a lot of great material that I feel can be nicer quality tumbles if I had an easier way to remove flaws between stage 1 tumbling time. My desires are to: 1. Break down whole rock rough into tumble fodder or smaller slabs (so I don't need a gigantic slab saw).
2. Pre-shape and grind pieces before stage 1 tumbling. I've been using my tile saw for that and it destroys the blade and doesn't work well. I anticipate needing grinding wheels or cab machine etc.
3. Between stage 1 tumbles, removing pits / fractures / flaws easily with some sort of wheel grinding system.
4. MAYBE in the future I might get into cabbing - but unlikely too serious about this as of now. So, I need the professional advice as to what equipment to be looking for. Should I buy a 8 or 10'' saw separately, and a cab / grinding machine separately? Buy a combo unit? Here is what I have been looking at, but I'm trying to anticipate pros / cons between these brands and setups and am hopeful you guys can help point me in a good direction!Thanks in advance - looking forward to hearing pros/cons! Grant Cab King 8''
Covington Heavy Duty 2 arbor grinder
Covington 8'' grinder and polisher combo
Covington saw / 8'' combo
Highland Park 8'' cab machine CB8
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Post by parfive on Feb 6, 2021 13:31:29 GMT -5
Sorry, Grant, but it looks like you wanna buy a Ferrari for makin’ dump runs.
Maybe someone on the board has a used arbor for cheap, instead of that nine-hundred-buck Covington.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 6, 2021 15:25:52 GMT -5
Sorry, Grant, but it looks like you wanna buy a Ferrari for makin’ dump runs. Maybe someone on the board has a used arbor for cheap, instead of that nine-hundred-buck Covington. LOL! I just posted pieces I've looked at - not knowing what else exists out there for the purposes I stated. I assume there are cheaper options, but am looking for the help here to find them. If I can come across a good arbor - would a sintered diamond wheel be my best bet for grinding/shaping? I'm hoping not to spend that much $$ obviously, but I do need the ability to use a saw to cut rough up, and something afterwards to grind/shape. Open to any suggestions. |
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Post by stardiamond on Feb 6, 2021 15:32:09 GMT -5
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 6, 2021 15:50:31 GMT -5
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Post by stardiamond on Feb 6, 2021 16:08:39 GMT -5
I started out with some local used equipment. After about a year, I bought a Genie and there was a deal for the 8 inch trim saw attachment. I think it was $50. That has been my trim saw for over 15 years. I had a used 8 inch cabbing machine that I retrofitted from 2 5 wheels and said to myself that I would never go back to a 6 inch machine for grinding. I needed to replace some wheels on my 8 inch machine and bought the wheels. Replacement requires a lot of disassembly and I didn't want to deal with it. I bought a 6 inch Lithuanian 80 grit wheel and it cut as fast as my 8 inch. I do a very large share of the work on the 80 grit so it doesn't make much difference about the diameter of the other wheels. I know nothing about sintered wheels. I didn't see a new trim saw that I would be willing to buy. There is an 8 inch trim saw attachment for the cabking. cabking.com/collections/trim-saw-attachments |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 6, 2021 20:22:57 GMT -5
If I were primarily only going to do tumbling then I would get a Rock Rascal Model "T" combo unit and put a 60 or 80gt diamond wheel on the right side to use for preforming. And with this unit if you ever get the urge to try cabbing you can get additional grits of grinding and sanding wheels to swap out through the grinding and sanding stages of cabbing - plus a spin-on aluminum disc with a hard felt or suede leather pad for polishing. It takes more time and effort cabbing when you have to change wheels at every grit stage than it does with a multi wheel arbor but that is what has always been done with all of the flat lap cabbing units. The time loss of having to change wheels can be offset by doing larger batches of cabs at each stage. Used Rock Rascal model "T" units turn up on eBay from time to time. And Johnson Bros Lapidary sells them new. If buying new I would buy it without the motor. IMO they have the motor mounted too close to the machine plus you can save a few bucks finding your own 1/3hp 1725rpm motor (which is a very common size motor and fairly easy to find a used one cheap).  |
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 7, 2021 17:28:50 GMT -5
If I were primarily only going to do tumbling then I would get a Rock Rascal Model "T" combo unit and put a 60 or 80gt diamond wheel on the right side to use for preforming. And with this unit if you ever get the urge to try cabbing you can get additional grits of grinding and sanding wheels to swap out through the grinding and sanding stages of cabbing - plus a spin-on aluminum disc with a hard felt or suede leather pad for polishing. It takes more time and effort cabbing when you have to change wheels at every grit stage than it does with a multi wheel arbor but that is what has always been done with all of the flat lap cabbing units. The time loss of having to change wheels can be offset by doing larger batches of cabs at each stage. Used Rock Rascal model "T" units turn up on eBay from time to time. And Johnson Bros Lapidary sells them new. If buying new I would buy it without the motor. IMO they have the motor mounted too close to the machine plus you can save a few bucks finding your own 1/3hp 1725rpm motor (which is a very common size motor and fairly easy to find a used one cheap). This looks like a nice option, thanks for the rec. |
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Post by Peruano on Feb 8, 2021 8:44:22 GMT -5
Cutting up big rocks is hard on equipment, especially if hand held (resulting in alignment problems and excessive pressure = un even speed). A small trim saw will have a rougher time than a larger one. At the minimum you need a 10" saw if you are going to hand feed it. If you can rig a gravity feed or use a power feed your blades and motors will last longer.
For both preshaping and removing blems in early stage tumbling you need a grinding wheel. An 80 and a 180 or 220 hard diamond would be ideal but you could do both with silicon carbide wheels if you manage them correctly (and a lot cheaper). (They work and were used for years just don't let them get out of round and or water logged). So the ideal would be a two wheel arbor (not so expensive as a multiwheel cab machine). 6" wheels would suffice for your needs, its only for faster cabbing that the 8" wheels are preferred in my view.
One alternative would be to buy an old HP combo machine which would give you a 10" saw and a room for several wheels. They are not sooooo expensive if bought from old lapidary sell offs but best would be one where the saw does not have to run when the arbor does and vice versa. Folks rave about the Harbor Freight saw that mimics the MK saw, but again its probably related to not pushing it too hard, too fast, and with too big material.
On a simple arbor its really easy to change wheels on the ends of the shaft, so a one lunger or simple double machine can meet most needs. Depending on how big the material you want to 'chop' up is, a 6 or 8" saw is just going to frustrate you more.
Shop the used equipment sources and be willing to drive and you can probably stay within a tighter budget than buying new or equipment that is too big. Good luck and keep asking for alternatives.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 8, 2021 19:55:48 GMT -5
Ok, so - I'm making an investment for my future  I'm gonna get a 10'' saw from Allreds (he makes the EZ cab). It's a nice stainless steel saw similar to the Lortone 10'' saw. It doesn't have a gravity feed or vice yet, but I mostly hand cut anyways. I'm also ordering the Highland Park CB8 cab machine.. looks great. I'm going to probably buy 1 sintered wheel 35 grit, and maybe another 80 grit. If I decide to cab later, I'll buy the appropriate wheels. This should give me everything I want (and more) going forward for a long time (I hope). Excited to be able to properly execute some things that have up until now been more difficult. Namely removing blemishes between long stage 1 runs that are difficult with a single tile saw blade. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 9, 2021 12:30:58 GMT -5
Ok, so - I'm making an investment for my future I'm gonna get a 10'' saw from Allreds (he makes the EZ cab). It's a nice stainless steel saw similar to the Lortone 10'' saw. It doesn't have a gravity feed or vice yet, but I mostly hand cut anyways. I'm also ordering the Highland Park CB8 cab machine.. looks great. I'm going to probably buy 1 sintered wheel 35 grit, and maybe another 80 grit. If I decide to cab later, I'll buy the appropriate wheels. This should give me everything I want (and more) going forward for a long time (I hope). Excited to be able to properly execute some things that have up until now been more difficult. Namely removing blemishes between long stage 1 runs that are difficult with a single tile saw blade. If it's not too late, please don't get the HP unit, you will be participating in a direct attack on a Washington company, Lortone. You can get the Lortone unit from Kingsley North for the same thing or less, and have customer service that doesn't ghost you the way HP will WHEN, not if, you have problems with their Chinese made crap. |
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 9, 2021 15:11:10 GMT -5
Ok, so - I'm making an investment for my future I'm gonna get a 10'' saw from Allreds (he makes the EZ cab). It's a nice stainless steel saw similar to the Lortone 10'' saw. It doesn't have a gravity feed or vice yet, but I mostly hand cut anyways. I'm also ordering the Highland Park CB8 cab machine.. looks great. I'm going to probably buy 1 sintered wheel 35 grit, and maybe another 80 grit. If I decide to cab later, I'll buy the appropriate wheels. This should give me everything I want (and more) going forward for a long time (I hope). Excited to be able to properly execute some things that have up until now been more difficult. Namely removing blemishes between long stage 1 runs that are difficult with a single tile saw blade. If it's not too late, please don't get the HP unit, you will be participating in a direct attack on a Washington company, Lortone. You can get the Lortone unit from Kingsley North for the same thing or less, and have customer service that doesn't ghost you the way HP will WHEN, not if, you have problems with their Chinese made crap. I support Lortone already with tons of their products which I own. Unfortunately they don't have a competitive cab machine that is comparable. I have no issue with HP. Their cab machine is stainless steel surround, which is what I'm after - the motor is external with pulley/band - so even if it is cheap Chinese crap, I can replace that easily. I respect your opinion but this is kind of a thread dump, lol. HP is a respected brand and each to their own opinions. Lorton obviously is respected as well. I'm not concerned about HP product support - the only thing that would go bad would be the motor which is replaceable since it is not a direct drive unit like the Cabking. |
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Post by stardiamond on Feb 9, 2021 16:43:13 GMT -5
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Post by rmf on Feb 9, 2021 17:07:53 GMT -5
If you are not planning to cab any time soon. I like a 6" trim saw for small stuff but mostly for slabs if I am just tumbling go with a 10". For Tumbling get a heavy crack hammer and a piece of rail track to act as an anvil. This is great for cracking rock for tumbling. If you live close to TN let me know I have a small rock crusher and I can crack rocks up to 4".
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Feb 9, 2021 19:47:15 GMT -5
If you are not planning to cab any time soon. I like a 6" trim saw for small stuff but mostly for slabs if I am just tumbling go with a 10". For Tumbling get a heavy crack hammer and a piece of rail track to act as an anvil. This is great for cracking rock for tumbling. If you live close to TN let me know I have a small rock crusher and I can crack rocks up to 4". Appreciate the offer! I like the railroad track tip - I actually have some and it does indeed work great. Just have to remember my goggles! |
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Post by rmf on Feb 10, 2021 2:59:13 GMT -5
If you are not planning to cab any time soon. I like a 6" trim saw for small stuff but mostly for slabs if I am just tumbling go with a 10". For Tumbling get a heavy crack hammer and a piece of rail track to act as an anvil. This is great for cracking rock for tumbling. If you live close to TN let me know I have a small rock crusher and I can crack rocks up to 4". Appreciate the offer! I like the railroad track tip - I actually have some and it does indeed work great. Just have to remember my goggles! and leather gloves and long sleeves |
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 11, 2021 22:24:16 GMT -5
If it's not too late, please don't get the HP unit, you will be participating in a direct attack on a Washington company, Lortone. You can get the Lortone unit from Kingsley North for the same thing or less, and have customer service that doesn't ghost you the way HP will WHEN, not if, you have problems with their Chinese made crap. I support Lortone already with tons of their products which I own. Unfortunately they don't have a competitive cab machine that is comparable. I have no issue with HP. Their cab machine is stainless steel surround, which is what I'm after - the motor is external with pulley/band - so even if it is cheap Chinese crap, I can replace that easily. I respect your opinion but this is kind of a thread dump, lol. HP is a respected brand and each to their own opinions. Lorton obviously is respected as well. I'm not concerned about HP product support - the only thing that would go bad would be the motor which is replaceable since it is not a direct drive unit like the Cabking. The respected HP of Gardenia CA and the individual who snuck into the trademark office to steal it from Diamond Pacific are not the same. My 14 inch HP that's older than me is less sloppy than a brand new chinese copy. Cigarbox rocks will not touch them or use their parts. Look into the EZ-cab. www.simpleelegancerockshop.com/machine.htm |
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