|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 14, 2022 13:23:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Jun 14, 2022 13:52:40 GMT -5
I assume the "stick Thing" is a thermal couple which is used to measure the temp. probably goes into the hole in the top of the burnout oven. I am assuming the burnout oven is elsewhere. This should be to either auto-manage the temperature or turn off once the turkey is done.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,546 
|
Post by gemfeller on Jun 14, 2022 15:34:03 GMT -5
rmf is correct. I own and previously used that exact machine to monitor and set temperature cycles for my old burn-out oven while cooking flasks for casting. The thermocouple is inserted into the hole in the top of the oven, as mentioned. It takes up a bit of space but worked OK with my old Satellite oven as long as I was careful to place the flasks without touching it. Mileage will vary depending on the type of oven used. I think this Amazon thermocouple will work with your machine but you might want to shop around: www.amazon.com/Temperature-Thermocouple-Ceramic-connector-CR-06/dp/B0713X6XG3/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=thermocouple&qid=1655238119&sr=8-20Somewhere in my files I have complete instructions for that old Rey machine. I can copy them and send them to you (if I can find them after my move - things are jumbled still). They're hard to read ( bad Xerox) but I've been intending to transcribe them since I'm planning to sell my machine and the burn-out oven I used it with, and want to give the new user good instructions.
|
|
|
|
Post by vegasjames on Jun 14, 2022 15:55:17 GMT -5
Yes, it is a thermocouple. There are different types J, K, T, E, N, etc. So you will need to do a little research to make sure you get the right one.
|
|
|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 15, 2022 11:40:00 GMT -5
This is the kiln   I don’t think it has a hole in it anywhere. I’m new to all of this!!! |
|
|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 15, 2022 11:41:36 GMT -5
rmf is correct. I own and previously used that exact machine to monitor and set temperature cycles for my old burn-out oven while cooking flasks for casting. The thermocouple is inserted into the hole in the top of the oven, as mentioned. It takes up a bit of space but worked OK with my old Satellite oven as long as I was careful to place the flasks without touching it. Mileage will vary depending on the type of oven used. I think this Amazon thermocouple will work with your machine but you might want to shop around: www.amazon.com/Temperature-Thermocouple-Ceramic-connector-CR-06/dp/B0713X6XG3/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=thermocouple&qid=1655238119&sr=8-20Somewhere in my files I have complete instructions for that old Rey machine. I can copy them and send them to you (if I can find them after my move - things are jumbled still). They're hard to read ( bad Xerox) but I've been intending to transcribe them since I'm planning to sell my machine and the burn-out oven I used it with, and want to give the new user good instructions. Instructions would be awesome!! Can’t find any anywhere! |
|
|
|
Post by vegasjames on Jun 15, 2022 11:59:23 GMT -5
rmf is correct. I own and previously used that exact machine to monitor and set temperature cycles for my old burn-out oven while cooking flasks for casting. The thermocouple is inserted into the hole in the top of the oven, as mentioned. It takes up a bit of space but worked OK with my old Satellite oven as long as I was careful to place the flasks without touching it. Mileage will vary depending on the type of oven used. I think this Amazon thermocouple will work with your machine but you might want to shop around: www.amazon.com/Temperature-Thermocouple-Ceramic-connector-CR-06/dp/B0713X6XG3/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=thermocouple&qid=1655238119&sr=8-20Somewhere in my files I have complete instructions for that old Rey machine. I can copy them and send them to you (if I can find them after my move - things are jumbled still). They're hard to read ( bad Xerox) but I've been intending to transcribe them since I'm planning to sell my machine and the burn-out oven I used it with, and want to give the new user good instructions. Instructions would be awesome!! Can’t find any anywhere! One thing with kilns is to bring the temp up slowly. Don't just turn them up to max to warm them up. Will make the heating coils last longer.
You can also get thermocouple controls separately to attach the kiln and thermocouple to. This will monitor the temp and control it for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 15, 2022 12:00:33 GMT -5
Instructions would be awesome!! Can’t find any anywhere! One thing with kilns is to bring the temp up slowly. Don't just turn them up to max to warm them up. Will make the heating coils last longer.
You can also get thermocouple controls separately to attach the kiln and thermocouple to. This will monitor the temp and control it for you.
That all sounds like a different language to me James |
|
|
|
Post by opalpyrexia on Jun 15, 2022 13:20:15 GMT -5
... I don’t think it has a hole in it anywhere. I’m new to all of this!!!
It looks like the heating elements are only on the top. So I think the logical place to drill a hole for the thermocouple is through one of the two sides.
Assuming you buy the thermocouple that gemfeller recommended, I'd suggest the hole diameter equal to or even a little less than the probe's ceramic tubes. That would give the tubes a friction fit with the kiln's insulation, and prevent the thermocouple wires' metal tube from touching the body. It should also cause the ceramic tubes to remain in the insulation if you needed to remove the thermocouple itself.
Where to drill? High enough to not touch a flask (my tallest is 3.5", but I only use 3" and shorter) but not close to the heating elements.
Others may have different viewpoints...
|
|
|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 15, 2022 13:26:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by vegasjames on Jun 15, 2022 14:11:26 GMT -5
One thing with kilns is to bring the temp up slowly. Don't just turn them up to max to warm them up. Will make the heating coils last longer.
You can also get thermocouple controls separately to attach the kiln and thermocouple to. This will monitor the temp and control it for you.
That all sounds like a different language to me James Like this:
It allows you to see what the temp is and to to control it. The thermocouple (probe thingy) will not do you any good unless you have some type of meter to connect it to so you can actually read the temperature. You may be able to sell the probe to some alien. Just tell them it is only slightly used. 
As for the first part, a lot of people just turn the kiln on high to get it up to temp quick. This is hard on the resistance coils that generate the heat. So turn the kiln on low for an hour or so to allow it to heat up some, then increase the temp. The heating coils will last a lot longer this way.
Speaking of which, the coils do have to be replaced once in a while. Not that expansive and easy to do. I changed mine about about a year ago or so.
|
|
|
|
Post by opalpyrexia on Jun 15, 2022 14:11:44 GMT -5
I should have added that the hole through the side metal should be drilled first, and it should be larger than the ceramic tubes. Otherwise you may not be able to insert them. Also, when deciding where to drill, add enough height to allow for a wire platform or grooved kiln tiles (for melting wax to drain) that the flasks will sit on.
Edit: After a little more thought regarding drilling height, I would suggest about mid-height of the chamber. The thermocouple doesn't have to extend into the chamber any farther than its welded tip. And mid-chamber height would give a more accurate reading.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,546
|
Post by gemfeller on Jun 15, 2022 15:02:58 GMT -5
melhill1659 The purpose of the machine you asked about is to regulate kiln temperature during burn-out. You don't need to worry about preheating the kiln: the entire process is automatic once the machine is installed with the thermocouple, and programmed properly. As for your kiln, I'm not sure it's a good fit for using the regulator. The oven opening seems small and unless you plan to use very small flasks, you won't have much room for multiple-flask burns, especially if you drill it to install the thermocouple. Maybe opalpyrexia has a solution with the Edit to his last post above. Most kilns designed for jewelry casting have an opening in the top to allow smoke to escape during burns. The heating coils are usually in the sides. The top opening is where the thermocouple is usually placed. Your situation is hard to judge without actually seeing the kiln. Is it a jewelry kiln, or one designed for enameling and glass work? Let me know if you decide to proceed with your current setup. If you do I'll dig the regulator instructions out and get them to you by snail mail.
|
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Jun 15, 2022 15:21:16 GMT -5
I should have added that the hole through the side metal should be drilled first, and it should be larger than the ceramic tubes. Otherwise you may not be able to insert them. Also, when deciding where to drill, add enough height to allow for a wire platform or grooved kiln tiles (for melting wax to drain) that the flasks will sit on.
Edit: After a little more thought regarding drilling height, I would suggest about mid-height of the chamber. The thermocouple doesn't have to extend into the chamber any farther than its welded tip. And mid-chamber height would give a more accurate reading.
Some of those are designed to open the door a little and see the temp. I am glade there are more with more complete knowledge than I. |
|
|
|
Post by opalpyrexia on Jun 15, 2022 22:18:05 GMT -5
gemfeller mentioned venting and this oven doesn't appear to have any. The door insulation appears to fit flush against the internal insulation when closed, but the door metal leaves a gap. For casting you'll need to vent for proper burnout and safety but that door gap offers a potential solution. It looks possible to cut, carve, or scrape a couple of vertical channels in the door insulation. Centered one at the top and one at the bottom, both should be long enough to provide access to the oven cavity. The bottom channel is to allow air inside to replace the air/fumes that leave from the top channel. Your shop will need good venting. I have a used range hood in my shop that vents outside. Despite it running on high during the early hours of burnout, my shop smells like a fire at a candle factory before the wax all gone.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,546
|
Post by gemfeller on Jun 17, 2022 14:22:23 GMT -5
gemfeller mentioned venting and this oven doesn't appear to have any. The door insulation appears to fit flush against the internal insulation when closed, but the door metal leaves a gap. For casting you'll need to vent for proper burnout and safety but that door gap offers a potential solution. It looks possible to cut, carve, or scrape a couple of vertical channels in the door insulation. Centered one at the top and one at the bottom, both should be long enough to provide access to the oven cavity. The bottom channel is to allow air inside to replace the air/fumes that leave from the top channel. Your shop will need good venting. I have a used range hood in my shop that vents outside. Despite it running on high during the early hours of burnout, my shop smells like a fire at a candle factory before the wax all gone. Gary, in case you've overlooked it, steam-dewaxing prior to burn-out really reduces the amount of smoke in the shop. Commercial units are available for $$$ but I jury-rigged one from an electric hot plate, a shallow metal baking pan, a steel mesh screen that fits on top of it and an inverted metal bowl to cover the whole thing. Heat water in the pan to "just boiling" temperature, then place the flasks sprue-side down on the mesh platform. Put the bowl over the top and "cook" for an hour or so until most of the wax is melted from the flasks. You'll probably want some tabletop protection because the condensation can make a bit of a mess. There will still be some smoke during burn-out but not nearly as much and I've found the molds are much cleaner with less oxide residue. This will work with wax models only, obviously. I've never used resin models so have no experience with that. |
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,546
|
Post by gemfeller on Jun 17, 2022 14:27:51 GMT -5
melhill1659 , I don't know where my head was the day I recommended a new thermocouple for your machine. You already HAVE the right one -- that's what your thread was about, dumb me! Sorry for any confusion. It's a type K, with the correct wires, exactly like the one on my Therminder. All you need to do is figure out how to install it on your oven.
|
|
|
|
Post by opalpyrexia on Jun 17, 2022 15:43:45 GMT -5
... Your shop will need good venting. I have a used range hood in my shop that vents outside. Despite it running on high during the early hours of burnout, my shop smells like a fire at a candle factory before the wax all gone. Gary, in case you've overlooked it, steam-dewaxing prior to burn-out really reduces the amount of smoke in the shop. Commercial units are available for $$$ but I jury-rigged one from an electric hot plate, a shallow metal baking pan, a steel mesh screen that fits on top of it and an inverted metal bowl to cover the whole thing. Heat water in the pan to "just boiling" temperature, then place the flasks sprue-side down on the mesh platform. Put the bowl over the top and "cook" for an hour or so until most of the wax is melted from the flasks. You'll probably want some tabletop protection because the condensation can make a bit of a mess. There will still be some smoke during burn-out but not nearly as much and I've found the molds are much cleaner with less oxide residue. This will work with wax models only, obviously. I've never used resin models so have no experience with that.
Yes, thanks for that suggestion, Rick. I actually have a tray for melted wax but used it only once and didn't put water in it. I might try it again before doing this:
For melhill1659's benefit — if you find that the controller ultimately doesn't work for you, it's still possible to accomplish burnout without having to baby-sit manual adjustments to temperature. Before I began casting, a local jeweler invited me to see his casting process for a pendant he was making for my wife. His oven had not been turned on long enough for step-wise temperature increases. I expressed concern about this, but he explained that he never follows a typical burnout schedule. From the start he always sets the oven to the maximum burnout temperature. He's never had an issue with bad castings. So that's what I do and I haven't had any problems. (I may do a final temperature adjustment based on the mass or thickness of the piece or pieces.) Just an option to consider.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,546
|
Post by gemfeller on Jun 17, 2022 16:02:06 GMT -5
opalpyrexia, There may be some confusion about my steam dewaxing post. I remove the wax BEFORE placing the flasks in the oven for burn-out. I use a tray in the oven to catch wax residues too but they're minimal when I'm able to remove nearly all the wax before the burn. FYI I've tried the burn-out method suggested by your jeweler friend with no success. I think there may be some variables like the kind of investment used, the moisture content, temperature used, whatever. I'd like to know the "secret."
|
|
|
|
Post by melhill1659 on Jun 18, 2022 13:45:22 GMT -5
opalpyrexiaThank You so much for the tip. That’s exactly what I bought the equipment for is Casting.
|
|
