|
Post by captbob on Nov 23, 2014 17:25:19 GMT -5
someone is gettin' awful lackadaisical about postin' before/during/after pictures
or maybe I missed 'em ...
never even saw how the obsidian turned out.
ETA: just found the coral thread. Turned out nice, what did it start from?
|
|
|
Post by cpdad on Nov 23, 2014 17:56:10 GMT -5
it took me installing a dimmer switch on my rotaries to get a shine on flourite.....among other things...but i did somewhat....kev.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 18:09:55 GMT -5
it took me installing a dimmer switch on my rotaries to get a shine on flourite.....among other things...but i did somewhat....kev. Was it real slow Kev ? I got some 6 inch barrels turning 12 RPM. that's what I was rolling the fluorite in coarse and 7/8 full barrel. That's pretty slow. but slower makes sense.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 18:23:18 GMT -5
someone is gettin' awful lackadaisical about postin' before/during/after pictures or maybe I missed 'em ... never even saw how the obsidian turned out. ETA: just found the coral thread. Turned out nice, what did it start from? i will pickup on the obsidian in the vibe captbob. Learning the vibe on easier agate, obsidian on sabbatical. Next batch in the vibe will be obsidian, I was wondering if the gap in the obsidian saga might get mentioned. Thanks for noticing. Thanks. The coral was already polished. So I unpolished it with AO 1000. That took less than a day. By the next day the grit must have broke down cause it repolished it w/decent polish. After 3 days in the AO 1000 and a day in 14,000 the deed was done. That vibe is a freak.
|
|
|
Post by cpdad on Nov 23, 2014 18:36:37 GMT -5
i was running about 14 rpm...but rotary remember please....lots and lots of filler....after all was said and done....i had somewhat shiny flourite (some pieces)....which i was told i could not do in a rotary...but me wins ...kev.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 18:53:17 GMT -5
At the end of a polish run with agate/jasper in my 4-lb Mini-Sonic I add water to about 1/3 the load height and let it run for half an hour or so. Then I drain it, add the same amount of new water with a gurgle of Mr. Clean and a tbsp. or 2 of household sudsy ammonia. After running another half hour I drain the load and flush with hot water. The stones always come out sparkling with no film. I don't think fluorite is reactive with ammonia. Fluorite is notorious for its perfect octahedral cleavage. I'm surprised you were able to tumble it gently enough in the rotary to avoid breaking it into tiny pieces -- good job! I did fill the hopper with water 4 times and dumped it. They were close to clean Rick. Sometimes soap spots have given me a hard time. I do not understand the reaction of the Mr. Clean and the ammonia, but have no doubt that it works. I believe ammonia is a component of glass cleaner ? and Mr. Clean too. Seems like dishwashing soap would work, it often has lye in it. And ammonia is converted from a gas w/water and is certainly alkaline. I will try that. A lot of people add borax and other soaps, and I am concerned about soap spots. But they are happy w/the results. Where did you learn that trick Rick? I see extreme cleavage reflections in the fluorite. None of it broke, must have been good material. It is running real slow and with a barrel filled high for a gentler action. Looks impossible to polish. Ya never know, worth a stab. I have seen tumbled fluorite out of China w/a fine polish. Can't let those guys beat us
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 18:54:36 GMT -5
i was running about 14 rpm...but rotary remember please....lots and lots of filler....after all was said and done....i had somewhat shiny flourite (some pieces)....which i was told i could not do in a rotary...but me wins ...kev. yes you did wins. if you got any iota of a shine I would be proud. did you do the shammy trick on the fluorite ?
|
|
|
Post by cpdad on Nov 23, 2014 19:14:20 GMT -5
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,793
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 23, 2014 19:17:00 GMT -5
[quote author=" jamesp" I did fill the hopper with water 4 times and dumped it. They were close to clean Rick. Sometimes soap spots have given me a hard time. I do not understand the reaction of the Mr. Clean and the ammonia, but have no doubt that it works. I believe ammonia is a component of glass cleaner ? and Mr. Clean too. Seems like dishwashing soap would work, it often has lye in it. And ammonia is converted from a gas w/water and is certainly alkaline. I will try that. A lot of people add borax and other soaps, and I am concerned about soap spots. But they are happy w/the results. Where did you learn that trick Rick? [/quote] Actually I wrote it wrong. I add the Mr. Clean to the second batch of water to remove any remaining AlOx scum from the polishing stage. (I do the same thing between pre-polish and polish too). The ammonia is added in the final cleaning stage and it seems to do the job for me. I decided to try it in the tumbler after seeing how clean faceted gems come out of the ultrasonic with an ammonia-based bath. I think varying water hardness is an important consideration in water-spotting. Our water here is extremely hard so I use only filtered water in the tumbler and for faceting.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 20:01:35 GMT -5
They look darn good. Got the shammys on my mind. Thanks for the tips.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2014 20:04:59 GMT -5
[quote author=" jamesp" I did fill the hopper with water 4 times and dumped it. They were close to clean Rick. Sometimes soap spots have given me a hard time. I do not understand the reaction of the Mr. Clean and the ammonia, but have no doubt that it works. I believe ammonia is a component of glass cleaner ? and Mr. Clean too. Seems like dishwashing soap would work, it often has lye in it. And ammonia is converted from a gas w/water and is certainly alkaline. I will try that. A lot of people add borax and other soaps, and I am concerned about soap spots. But they are happy w/the results. Where did you learn that trick Rick? Actually I wrote it wrong. I add the Mr. Clean to the second batch of water to remove any remaining AlOx scum from the polishing stage. (I do the same thing between pre-polish and polish too). The ammonia is added in the final cleaning stage and it seems to do the job for me. I decided to try it in the tumbler after seeing how clean faceted gems come out of the ultrasonic with an ammonia-based bath. I think varying water hardness is an important consideration in water-spotting. Our water here is extremely hard so I use only filtered water in the tumbler and for faceting. [/quote] Ah, the ultrasonic cleaner uses ammonia base. Makes perfect sense, similar application. Yes some water leaves spots worse than others. As does dirty water.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,793
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 23, 2014 22:00:47 GMT -5
James, not all ultrasonic cleaner solutions contain ammonia. In fact several brag they contain no ammonia; I'm not really sure what the bad rap on ammonia is. I've used acidic cleaners that do a quick job of demolishing the polish on carbonates like malachite, lapis, rhodochrosite, etc. Once burned twice shy -- I don't put stones like that in ammonia cleaner either. I'll have to try and see what happens.
|
|
|
Post by orrum on Nov 24, 2014 0:52:06 GMT -5
I like to wash with blue Dawn and then rinse and then burnish with borax James. However you can burnish too much and chip, bruise and mess up a batch too!
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Nov 24, 2014 1:04:40 GMT -5
Hope we can see the obsidian before it goes to the vibe. Like to see how it turned out just with a rotary.
I've got two barrels still running with obsidian. 15 pounder still on 60/90 and a 12 running 120/220.
Need something to shoot for!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 2:04:50 GMT -5
Hope we can see the obsidian before it goes to the vibe. Like to see how it turned out just with a rotary. I've got two barrels still running with obsidian. 15 pounder still on 60/90 and a 12 running 120/220. Need something to shoot for! Looks like the vibe is going to be the gig on the obsidian. Seems like I got a whopping w/the rotary.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 2:09:15 GMT -5
I like to wash with blue Dawn and then rinse and then burnish with borax James. However you can burnish too much and chip, bruise and mess up a batch too! Interesting orrum. Well, I always rotary tumbled at polish with thicker sugar slurry. No way I was gonna risk a thin slurry w/soap just to clean. But the vibe did well with just water and polish. so a thin slurry does not concern me so much in the vibe.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 2:11:00 GMT -5
James, not all ultrasonic cleaner solutions contain ammonia. In fact several brag they contain no ammonia; I'm not really sure what the bad rap on ammonia is. I've used acidic cleaners that do a quick job of demolishing the polish on carbonates like malachite, lapis, rhodochrosite, etc. Once burned twice shy -- I don't put stones like that in ammonia cleaner either. I'll have to try and see what happens. So many pretty carbonate rocks, chemicals would make me concerned around them. Especially acidic chemicals.
|
|
|
Post by connrock on Nov 24, 2014 7:06:51 GMT -5
Burnishing,,,,, I've never had any luck with borax or borax and powdered soap.Even after rinsing with a strong spray of water I always get a slight "water spot" on the rocks. I've tried powdered and liquid dish washing soap and didn't like the results of that either. A long time ago I read that using liquid dish soap isn't good due to the phosphates in it so I never even tried it. I've found that using Dreft and a LOT of plastic pellets in a rotary work the best for me so that's what I do.
I've also tried burnishing in a L-O-T and didn't like the results.
I guess it all goes back to what works for one doesn't always work for others so we do what works best for us.
I think captbob has a good idea in using the chamois,,,especially in the burnishing stage w/fluorite but I don't know how that would work in a vibe?I've never tried it but in my mind I see the chamois getting all balled up and separating from the fluorite in a vibe??? connrock
|
|
|
Post by connrock on Nov 24, 2014 7:12:51 GMT -5
captbob,,,,I don't think there's anything that can't be done in a rotary and I HATE the words "it can't be done"!
If someone figured out how to build pyramids in Egypt way back then,,,I think we can figure out how to tumble rocks in a rotary as long as we're will do do a little leg work! You did a GREAT job on that fluorite and you did do it in a rotary! Good on ya! connrock
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 9:01:03 GMT -5
captbob,,,,I don't think there's anything that can't be done in a rotary and I HATE the words "it can't be done"! If someone figured out how to build pyramids in Egypt way back then,,,I think we can figure out how to tumble rocks in a rotary as long as we're will do do a little leg work! You did a GREAT job on that fluorite and you did do it in a rotary! Good on ya! connrock I agree. There is a way. Seems like plastic media or shammys may do the job. Maybe slower barrel speed. I have to say the vibe took the wind out of my sail on experimenting w/the rotary. if experimenting with a good finish, the vibe will be the machine of choice. The constant threat of bruising obsidian alone was irritating in the rotary. And my smallest rotary is 15 pounds, kinda big to experiment with. it cost $110 just to get two 11 pound boxes of fluorite to run it. And the 22 pounds will be less than 15 pounds after roughing. would/should get some smaller barrels. Was getting ready to make them when the vibe deal came along. And was going to buy it for vintage decoration piece till I tried it. Now I find myself rounding up parts to build one. i know you got a Lot-O many years ago connrock. And paved a way to use it. I was going to mention that don39 was in ceramic electrical parts manufacture. The company he worked for had about 50 hydraulically powered commercial vibes just to finish ceramic resistor parts. I believe his company had purchased a Viking or two also. It is interesting to hear his experience. His technique of starting with 90 grit for 7 days and then going straight to polish blows my mind. I think he does end cuts and cab slab leftovers for the most part that do not need a lot of rounding. But to work 90 grit to nothing in 7 days is crazy. Is that doable in all vibes ? That is like infinite grit, and very little of it. Don't get me wrong, the rotaries are absolutely necessary for rounding with most rough. It takes a lot of rotary capacity to rough tumble the rocks that many people collect on one trip. And the coarse SiC is darn expensive to rough grind 50-100 pounds of Mohs 7 rock. not much can change that. Some rough grinds take months, and a bunch of grit. Then you cull, and it is not so many rocks when all is done and said.
|
|