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Post by cpdad on Nov 24, 2014 20:08:45 GMT -5
gonna throw a few things out here...right or wrong....just me and rotary stuff. will start next of batch flourite in rotary in 120....in using 3lb barrels. will go at 33 rpm for rough. next stage...will be at about 14 rpm...using dimmer switch. after rough stage...there is no burnish stage....i have not used a burnish stage except for agates and jaspers that may have small flaws that may need it....i wash these so grit dont move on of coarse. flourite flaws will be seen and culled out....those crevices should be seen after rough. every stage afterward....i soak shammys in the next stage grit....mixed up in a bowl...so they are completly soaked and loaded to go...maybe those little fellows slide of of those shammys . gotta go football folks here...later...kev.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 20:14:41 GMT -5
gonna throw a few things out here...right or wrong....just me and rotary stuff. will start next of batch flourite in rotary in 120....in using 3lb barrels. will go at 33 rpm for rough. next stage...will be at about 14 rpm...using dimmer switch. after rough stage...there is no burnish stage....i have not used a burnish stage except for agates and jaspers that may have small flaws that may need it....i wash these so grit dont move on of coarse. flourite flaws will be seen and culled out....those crevices should be seen after rough. every stage afterward....i soak shammys in the next stage grit....mixed up in a bowl...so they are completly soaked and loaded to go...maybe those little fellows slide of of those shammys . gotta go football folks here...later...kev. Those speeds seem good. Grits too. The shammys are a great idea. May be the key to a polish on fluorite.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2014 20:23:08 GMT -5
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Post by connrock on Nov 25, 2014 11:24:00 GMT -5
I had about 8-9 rotaries ranging from 1.5lb - 15 lb barrels before I got my first L-O-T. The only instructions I had were those that came with the unit so I did a LOT of "playing" with it before I finally figured it out.I think my biggest problem was I was "rotary minded" which cause me to use WAY too much grit and even water.Like a fool I didn't believe the instructions and the scant amount of water and grit it said to use,,,NO WAY could this be possible! LOL Another problem was learning that I had to tend it a LOT more then a rotary and I had some real thick cement loads that are a REAL mess to clean up! LOL Once I was ABSOLUTELY sure I knew what I was doing I began to help others so they would make the same mistakes I did for sooooooooooooo long. Since then vibe units took off and a lot of people have started using vibes and a LOT of info became available to all of us.They all do the same job and different brands have their own idea of how they actually create vibration but the one thing they all have in common is how little grit and polish they use and how fast they work.
If you figure that don39 lets the 90 grit run for 7 days the grit breaks down in about 1/2 every 12 hours or so.This comes out to roughly 6000 grit,,,or maybe even finer!I'm basing this on a L-O-T so who knows what can be done with other vibes?They may grind the grit even more?
I don't know if all vibes are capable of doing this cuz I've only used a L-O-T and I would say that you would have to try it in your Viking to see what happens.Once you've done a few loads and are happy with your results you can take a couple rocks out at any given grit and compare them to ones that have gone through 90 grit for several time periods.I did something similar to this when I was learning to use the vibe.I had rocks from each stage set up like "word squares" used in Scrabble.All lined up so I could compare other rocks I was doing to see if they had the same look on the surface.I even started checking the rocks with a 10 x loupe! LOL I was nuts,,,,,I kept wanting a better shine on my rocks and tried comparing the finishes with the loupe! LOL A the polish stage a microscope is more appropriate! LOL
I don't now what the physics of it would be,if it would work or just a waste of time but I after using my 1st vibe I always wanted to try to build a rotary/vibe unit to see if it would work to speed up the rough stage and still round off the rocks.There HAS to be a way to speed up roughing,,,,,we just haven't found it yet! LOL connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 25, 2014 11:40:44 GMT -5
captbob what brand tumbler do you have the rheostat hooked up to? re you using a multi sided or round barrel? Years ago a lot of the old times swore that round barrels did a better job on soft rocks then the multi sided barrels. I don't think the grit can stay "in" the chamois pieces.I would think the grit would have to impregnated into it somehow for it to actually stay??? I'm hoping James tries using chamois in his vibe so we can all see how it reacts! connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2014 11:44:43 GMT -5
I had about 8-9 rotaries ranging from 1.5lb - 15 lb barrels before I got my first L-O-T. The only instructions I had were those that came with the unit so I did a LOT of "playing" with it before I finally figured it out.I think my biggest problem was I was "rotary minded" which cause me to use WAY too much grit and even water.Like a fool I didn't believe the instructions and the scant amount of water and grit it said to use,,,NO WAY could this be possible! LOL Another problem was learning that I had to tend it a LOT more then a rotary and I had some real thick cement loads that are a REAL mess to clean up! LOL Once I was ABSOLUTELY sure I knew what I was doing I began to help others so they would make the same mistakes I did for sooooooooooooo long. Since then vibe units took off and a lot of people have started using vibes and a LOT of info became available to all of us.They all do the same job and different brands have their own idea of how they actually create vibration but the one thing they all have in common is how little grit and polish they use and how fast they work. If you figure that don39 lets the 90 grit run for 7 days the grit breaks down in about 1/2 every 12 hours or so.This comes out to roughly 6000 grit,,,or maybe even finer!I'm basing this on a L-O-T so who knows what can be done with other vibes?They may grind the grit even more? I don't know if all vibes are capable of doing this cuz I've only used a L-O-T and I would say that you would have to try it in your Viking to see what happens.Once you've done a few loads and are happy with your results you can take a couple rocks out at any given grit and compare them to ones that have gone through 90 grit for several time periods.I did something similar to this when I was learning to use the vibe.I had rocks from each stage set up like "word squares" used in Scrabble.All lined up so I could compare other rocks I was doing to see if they had the same look on the surface.I even started checking the rocks with a 10 x loupe! LOL I was nuts,,,,,I kept wanting a better shine on my rocks and tried comparing the finishes with the loupe! LOL A the polish stage a microscope is more appropriate! LOL I don't now what the physics of it would be,if it would work or just a waste of time but I after using my 1st vibe I always wanted to try to build a rotary/vibe unit to see if it would work to speed up the rough stage and still round off the rocks.There HAS to be a way to speed up roughing,,,,,we just haven't found it yet! LOL connrock I figured out a way to speed rough grind LOL:
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Post by connrock on Nov 25, 2014 12:04:46 GMT -5
That's pretty good but you have to stand/sit there and do it manually! I want it to be done all by itself so I can go sit in my recliner and watch TV with my eyes closed! LOL You aint gettin off this easy fella! LOL Go make one of them rotaries vibrate! connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2014 14:25:45 GMT -5
That's pretty good but you have to stand/sit there and do it manually! I want it to be done all by itself so I can go sit in my recliner and watch TV with my eyes closed! LOL You aint gettin off this easy fella! LOL Go make one of them rotaries vibrate! connrock Yep, hard to beat the ole couch tumble.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 26, 2014 7:05:29 GMT -5
That's pretty good but you have to stand/sit there and do it manually! I want it to be done all by itself so I can go sit in my recliner and watch TV with my eyes closed! LOL You aint gettin off this easy fella! LOL Go make one of them rotaries vibrate! connrock I agree with you 100 %. A true rotary that vibrates at the same time would be the ultimate. I guess just one of the roller shafts may be set to vibrate. May have to have a large rubber band around barrel and roller shafts to keep barrel from floating/bouncing. Or simply a top roller that pushes down with rubber bands or something. There is a way. It may break the coarse grit down too fast though, causing it to not coarse grind for long. opinion ? As far as the vibe is concerned connrock, i am thinking that I may be able to get by with el cheapo AO 220 and AO 14,000 in the vibe. Will be starting a load in the vibe at AO 500 soon, coming out of 220 in the rotary. And see if it will break down the 500 to a polish that can be easily be wet shined with 14.000. Target would be rotaries used 100% for coarse grind only. And vibe AO 220 and AO 14,000. So the rotary barrels would never have to be cleaned well. And the vibe be well cleaned only before the 14,000 step. There is no way four 20 pound rotary barrels doing good 2 month rounding job will ever keep up with that 14 pound vibe. Not close. Vibe will sit waiting. Unless I start tumbling softer materials that round fast. And the vibe has a better chance of putting the wet shine on softer materials. So win-win situation. The other requirement is for the vibe to polish 6-12 ounce stones. That may require a lot of media and many more batches.
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Post by connrock on Nov 27, 2014 8:05:34 GMT -5
I think if the coarse grit breaks down fast the rocks are getting ground just as fast? Kinda like the faster you an spread a gallon of paint on a wall the faster the wall gets painted?
Maybe a rotary/vibe isn't the answer?Maybe something that would put pressure on the rocks so they "push" against each other more? A "pressure cooker" rotary? LOL
I dunno but there HAS to be a way to rough faster without having to grind them by hand.The thing is to duplicate the same "action" you get by hand grinding but have it don't by itself.
Trying to keep the Viking fed with roughed rocks is a trip.I think either more or bigger rotaries is the only way you can do it? I had a pretty good system going with my rotaries having roughed rocks ready for the L-O-T and then I got my 2nd L-O-T.I had to regroup but I was putting out polished rocks on a regular basis. I slowed down on the rock tumbling,,,went back to 1 L-O-T for rocks and used the other mostly for metal applications.
The vibes WILL keep you busy and the addiction for more and more polished rocks only gets worse! LOL
Try throwing a load of broken coral rough in the Viking?It won't round the coral off but it will polish it.
Good luck,,,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 27, 2014 10:30:47 GMT -5
I think if the coarse grit breaks down fast the rocks are getting ground just as fast? Kinda like the faster you an spread a gallon of paint on a wall the faster the wall gets painted? Maybe a rotary/vibe isn't the answer?Maybe something that would put pressure on the rocks so they "push" against each other more? A "pressure cooker" rotary? LOL I dunno but there HAS to be a way to rough faster without having to grind them by hand.The thing is to duplicate the same "action" you get by hand grinding but have it don't by itself. Trying to keep the Viking fed with roughed rocks is a trip.I think either more or bigger rotaries is the only way you can do it? I had a pretty good system going with my rotaries having roughed rocks ready for the L-O-T and then I got my 2nd L-O-T.I had to regroup but I was putting out polished rocks on a regular basis. I slowed down on the rock tumbling,,,went back to 1 L-O-T for rocks and used the other mostly for metal applications. The vibes WILL keep you busy and the addiction for more and more polished rocks only gets worse! LOL Try throwing a load of broken coral rough in the Viking?It won't round the coral off but it will polish it. Good luck,,,,, connrock I think your mention of a bigger barrel is great idea. If the barrel was 20- 30 inches in diameter and say 5 inches wide and filled to 3/4 the vertical weight will have more pressure. It could and should turn slow. It is not a barrel the could be made cheaply as a normal shape. And need a sealable door. I doubt any tumbler company would have tackled that design. And that may be why it was never built. The Viking does have a rotating action. but it is just a vibe. There is no 'tumble' in it like a rotary as you know. Looking at making same principle as Viking but using a smaller 4 inch sch 40 PVC pipe that may hold 8-10 pounds. With a tee in the center, and end caps. About 12-14 inches long. I have seen large diameter, narrow home made tumblers built by the old school lapidary guys. This one comes to mind, 24 inches in diameter and 11 inches wide. Maybe they know. I think Rockoonz mentioned a 4 foot diameter X 2 foot wide tumbler at his rock club. Or maybe I got it backwards.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 27, 2014 13:36:22 GMT -5
yep jamesp lovingly referred to as "Bertha". I had a different name when replacing bearings with a full load of about 600 lbs.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 27, 2014 17:48:31 GMT -5
yep jamesp lovingly referred to as "Bertha". I had a different name when replacing bearings with a full load of about 600 lbs. Sounds like a job for a hydraulic bottle jack Lee. Does that monster coarse grind faster than a 12 pound barrel ?
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Post by connrock on Nov 28, 2014 8:27:23 GMT -5
We had a huge excavation project in work to get rid of all the polluted ground down to 14' deep.They trucked all the polluted dirt to Texas and New Jersey.In doing this they unearthed several big storm drains and had to replace them. A couple of the storm drains were only 24" in diameter so they replaced them with plastic pipe,,,I think it may have been PVC but I'm not sure.It had a fairly thick wall and was a light green in color. I was very tempted to ask the workers to cut me a couple pieces of that pipe to build a couple big tumblers but all I could think of was having to buy a lot of rough and a lot of rough grit.
I think your idea of a tall narrow tumbler makes a lot of sense as the rocks would have a good bit of weight them as they tumbled.This may speed up the roughing time but still not enough to keep the Viking supplied! Keep your eyes open for a good used cement truck,,,that ought to do it! LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2014 8:58:23 GMT -5
We had a huge excavation project in work to get rid of all the polluted ground down to 14' deep.They trucked all the polluted dirt to Texas and New Jersey.In doing this they unearthed several big storm drains and had to replace them. A couple of the storm drains were only 24" in diameter so they replaced them with plastic pipe,,,I think it may have been PVC but I'm not sure.It had a fairly thick wall and was a light green in color. I was very tempted to ask the workers to cut me a couple pieces of that pipe to build a couple big tumblers but all I could think of was having to buy a lot of rough and a lot of rough grit. I think your idea of a tall narrow tumbler makes a lot of sense as the rocks would have a good bit of weight them as they tumbled.This may speed up the roughing time but still not enough to keep the Viking supplied! Keep your eyes open for a good used cement truck,,,that ought to do it! LOL connrock I have made 8 and 12 inch barrels out of PVC pipe. the problem is the fittings are expensive, real expensive. The 2nd problem is that the glue worked itself loose and it leaked. So I went back to longer barrels of 6 inch PVC. They are about bulletproof. Your mention of the tall barrel A tall barrel that holds 20-40 pounds would be right for me. Like 5 inches wide and 24 inches in diameter. I suppose out of steel, with the axles welded to the side. Just like the yellow one in the photo. I got the junk to make one. I just may. Help figure out an access hole. I'll weld one up. Nice if I had a cut off 24 inch pipe about 5 inches long. Or some kind of ring, maybe a truck rim ? Or could do octagonal, or try anyway. Good thing about steel is leaks can be welded shut ha.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 28, 2014 15:02:23 GMT -5
yep jamesp lovingly referred to as "Bertha". I had a different name when replacing bearings with a full load of about 600 lbs. Sounds like a job for a hydraulic bottle jack Lee. Does that monster coarse grind faster than a 12 pound barrel ? It was a 2 ton floor jack and a makeshift cradle made from 4x4 fenceposts. The person who was keeping it at the time has built a sound insulated box/room for it with out considering someone might have to crawl in there to work on it. When you calculate by the pound it is indeed faster than a single 12 pounder but by the batch it's a lot longer, plus the best it will do is a decent pre-polish so each load gets distributed out to club members to finish in their personal tumblers.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2014 16:20:48 GMT -5
That is some cool teamwork Rockoonz. It makes sense bulk tumble for coarse grind. Is the load to heavy to make a polish ? Sounds like you got rustled to make the repair
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2014 16:44:14 GMT -5
Fluorite about finished in coarse grind. Will run in vibe when available. Unless there is a better way. Do not have high hopes. About 15 pounds, some duds. Left some material for the 220 to get rid of any frosting, if it is frosted.
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Post by gingerkid on Nov 28, 2014 17:17:26 GMT -5
Wow, jamesp, those look awesome for coming out of coarse grind.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2014 18:03:42 GMT -5
Wow, jamesp, those look awesome for coming out of coarse grind. Love the gingerbread kid ginger kid name. Perfect for Thanksgiving. Remember gingerbrat LOL. The color of that fluorite is bizarre Jan. Not much like it. Blugreenurple. What a mix of colors. Lsd's you out. Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. Used the 270 with self loaded 160 grain bullets to fill the fridge. Visiting buddies from Florida got 6 deer. Friend's son got 4. He was heart broken though, me and his Dad told him not to use buckshot. He had a trophy buck walk up under him and he knocked it down twice, got up for a third time and ran off. No blood trail a so common for buckshot. We beat the bush and never found it. It would be gone the next day, big packs of coyote never leave a deer the next day in this area. Most of us incl me just meat hunting, the kid wanted big horns.
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