jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 28, 2014 18:17:49 GMT -5
We had a huge excavation project in work to get rid of all the polluted ground down to 14' deep.They trucked all the polluted dirt to Texas and New Jersey.In doing this they unearthed several big storm drains and had to replace them. A couple of the storm drains were only 24" in diameter so they replaced them with plastic pipe,,,I think it may have been PVC but I'm not sure.It had a fairly thick wall and was a light green in color. I was very tempted to ask the workers to cut me a couple pieces of that pipe to build a couple big tumblers but all I could think of was having to buy a lot of rough and a lot of rough grit. I think your idea of a tall narrow tumbler makes a lot of sense as the rocks would have a good bit of weight them as they tumbled.This may speed up the roughing time but still not enough to keep the Viking supplied! Keep your eyes open for a good used cement truck,,,that ought to do it! LOL connrock Check out this steel ring connrock. They are used on truck wheels somehow. 19 inches X 4 inches. Thinking some 3/16 or 1/8 plate on each side with a 4-5 inch gasketed flange for access. Axles welded to the side plate, like that old yellow tumbler. I calculated volume, should hold 30 pounds of rock. Bet it would do some serious grinding for coarse stage. Definitely a change from a barrel. 8-10 RPM ?? Sitting on 8 inch tiles for size reference. Opnions ?? Like this:
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Post by connrock on Nov 29, 2014 6:58:06 GMT -5
I dunno,,,,I think your truck tire ring may be to narrow? You have the "flared" out edges so if it has a 4" OD and you take off the flared edges it leaves only about 3" of actual tumbling area? If you had 2 of them you could cut/grind off the flanges on 2 rings and weld them together,which would be the center of the barrel and give you a wider area for the tumbling action? it would take more rough rock to fill it but that would also make the load "heavier" so the grinding action may even be better then a single tire ring? I just looked at one of the Covington tumblers and came across this video.This guy does some serious rock tumbling,,,, linkHis Home page,,, linkBack to Covington tumblers,,,, I've always wanted to build a tumbler like this just to see if it would rough faster then conventional rotary tumblers,,,, covington-engineering.com/lapidary-equipment/tumblers/deluxe-tumbler/deluxe-tumbler/This isn't a Covington but it gives an idea of how the rocks tumble in this type of barrel at an angle,,,,,, At least with this type of design water leaking would be at a minimum unlike the horizontal tumblers? Wish I was young again! LOL connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 29, 2014 7:00:08 GMT -5
The fluorite is looking good James. I do see a few that need a little TLC but you can do that easily on your hand grinder.
Good luck,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2014 7:51:20 GMT -5
I dunno,,,,I think your truck tire ring may be to narrow? You have the "flared" out edges so if it has a 4" OD and you take off the flared edges it leaves only about 3" of actual tumbling area? If you had 2 of them you could cut/grind off the flanges on 2 rings and weld them together,which would be the center of the barrel and give you a wider area for the tumbling action? it would take more rough rock to fill it but that would also make the load "heavier" so the grinding action may even be better then a single tire ring? I just looked at one of the Covington tumblers and came across this video.This guy does some serious rock tumbling,,,, linkHis Home page,,, linkBack to Covington tumblers,,,, I've always wanted to build a tumbler like this just to see if it would rough faster then conventional rotary tumblers,,,, covington-engineering.com/lapidary-equipment/tumblers/deluxe-tumbler/deluxe-tumbler/This isn't a Covington but it gives an idea of how the rocks tumble in this type of barrel at an angle,,,,,, At least with this type of design water leaking would be at a minimum unlike the horizontal tumblers? Wish I was young again! LOL connrock My mind was wondering on this tall tumbler yesterday and the same thing you mentioned hit me. Too narrow. Probably 4 inches would work for small tumbles. But chances are a jam will occur with any group of larger stones. I thought I had a perfect piece of steel to do the job until that thought hit. We must have been plugged into the same circuit. What time did you see that ? LOL. And unjamming it would sure be a problem, tumbling can make things wedge hard. Talk about a lopsided load... The guy tumbling Montana agates was enlightening. He used the taller barrels for 36 grit roughing. He said it. If anyone should know it should be him, that is an amazing shop. I am not sure I was ever young enough to nurse that many tumblers. Good grief. He must have an army of collectors to keep them fed w/rocks alone. Incredible. His comment about the tall narrow barrel further inspired me though. I think the tall barrel is the way to rough. The width is a problem, a 5 or 6 inch width at 20 inches in diameter gets to be a big tumbler. Takes it out of the hobby size tumbler. I built one of those slanted barrels. It had a way of sorting the bigger rocks to the top. You can see it in the short video you linked in the giant tumbler. The smaller rocks stay to the bottom where it is much more violent. I don't know if that is intentional. I canned the machine after it tore up the barrel. I did not have a good barrel. Yes the water leakage was never a problem. And you could view the tumble in action. The only problem was no access to a good barrel in my case. It tumbled fine. Photo of that machine, it used a worm gear reduction, it could be tilted to different angles. The shaft was a junker that had that blue roller on it. The roller serves no purpose, I just needed the 2 inch shaft and bearings that were mounted on it: I converted the slant tumbler to a steel tumbler. It removes rust and burrs from steel prior to welding operations. Steel up to 4 feet long. Grit is the gravel in the driveway, and quartz sand. Beats pulling wires out of your body from the wire wheel buffer. It has been a real time/labor saver. Will win no beauty contests.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2014 8:10:02 GMT -5
The fluorite is looking good James. I do see a few that need a little TLC but you can do that easily on your hand grinder. Good luck,,, connrock I probably pulled the plug a little early on the coarse grind. I do have about 8 pounds of fluorite that are well ready for 220. Darn stuff was expensive, so i figured I would save some material by hitting the bad areas by hand. So the 8 pounds should create a load for the Viking. Figure I will need some serious filler. Hoping for a wet shine on the fluorite. With your recommendations on filler I will adjust the eccentric to the absolute minimum to get the rocks to roll when doing the fluorite. A setting that may be handy for obsidian in polish stages too. I have to say that obsidian and this fluorite are fun in the coarse; they round fast. Coarse grit costs are cheap. No 2 months to wait. The finish cycle james, what to do with the finish...
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2014 14:21:49 GMT -5
I dunno,,,,I think your truck tire ring may be to narrow? You have the "flared" out edges so if it has a 4" OD and you take off the flared edges it leaves only about 3" of actual tumbling area? If you had 2 of them you could cut/grind off the flanges on 2 rings and weld them together,which would be the center of the barrel and give you a wider area for the tumbling action? connrock I got another idea. Bet you will like this one. A hybrid. Will build some of it and take photos. Here is a start, bowl is 20 inches, plate to cover front, 6 inch pipe stub w/rubber cap for access at edge for easy unload, tilt can control grind aggressiveness:
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Nov 29, 2014 16:50:34 GMT -5
That batch is awesome James....Dang I have to get my tumblers going....LOL
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2014 17:02:55 GMT -5
That batch is awesome James....Dang I have to get my tumblers going....LOL It is time.
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Post by MrP on Nov 29, 2014 20:03:49 GMT -5
I will be watching this. What size is that shaft?..........................MrP
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 29, 2014 20:59:24 GMT -5
I will be watching this. What size is that shaft?..........................MrP Shaft is 1 inch. Design hit me between the eyes at about 3PM today. I knew the second it passed my mind it was probably gonna be a great roughing machine. We will see. It will be a bit trick to slow it enough without a double reduction or a gearbox reducer though. Rest is easy.
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Post by connrock on Nov 30, 2014 8:55:42 GMT -5
Maybe we have telepathic powers between us? LOL I "slowly" typed my reply to you at 6:58.How long did it take to send the "vibes" down to you? LOL There's usually a "sender" and a "receiver" in telepathy so we have to figure out who does what here. I'll try being the sender,,,,,I'm thinking of an old style 2 wheel bicycle I had as a kid.What brand and color was my bike?
The guy with the Montana Agate operation is something else!He HAS to be buying rough grit by the truck load!
"The width is a problem, a 5 or 6 inch width at 20 inches in diameter gets to be a big tumbler. Takes it out of the hobby size tumbler." I think the Viking also takes this out of the hobby thing,,,if you want to keep it fed constantly! LOL This could also lead to you either buying ,renting or even building heavy equipment to dredge rivers of their coral! LOL
Looking at your slant tumbler,,,it looks to me like the barrel was set at too steep of an angle??If the angle was adjustable maybe you would have found that "sweet spot"?It definitely was big enough though!
Good luck,,, connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 30, 2014 9:07:35 GMT -5
I was kinda surprised to see that you pulled the fluorite out of rough while some of it was still a bit "bumpy". It's hard to tell from photos but it also looks like the finish on the fluorite is a little rough too,,,,like the grit didn't get a chance to fully break down and smooth the fluorite down a bit more??
Before I forget,,,,again,,,,how do you do the "quote" thing when replying? STOP laughing,,,,some day technology will pass you buy too ,,,sonny! LOL
Getting a smoother/slower action with the Viking: Have you tried filling the barrel with water to just cover the rocks?This works well with the L-O-T when doing softer materials. connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 30, 2014 9:12:33 GMT -5
Your new tumbler design is interesting! If I'm reading you right,,,,you will have an adjustable angle incorporated into the design? I KNEW you'd figure something out! LOL Good luck,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 9:26:16 GMT -5
Maybe we have telepathic powers between us? LOL I "slowly" typed my reply to you at 6:58.How long did it take to send the "vibes" down to you? LOL There's usually a "sender" and a "receiver" in telepathy so we have to figure out who does what here. I'll try being the sender,,,,,I'm thinking of an old style 2 wheel bicycle I had as a kid.What brand and color was my bike? The guy with the Montana Agate operation is something else!He HAS to be buying rough grit by the truck load! "The width is a problem, a 5 or 6 inch width at 20 inches in diameter gets to be a big tumbler. Takes it out of the hobby size tumbler."I think the Viking also takes this out of the hobby thing,,,if you want to keep it fed constantly! LOL This could also lead to you either buying ,renting or even building heavy equipment to dredge rivers of their coral! LOL Looking at your slant tumbler,,,it looks to me like the barrel was set at too steep of an angle??If the angle was adjustable maybe you would have found that "sweet spot"?It definitely was big enough though! Good luck,,, connrock It's 9:05 and it says you sent 7 minutes ago. I just woke up, deer hunters kept me up late last night. More telepathy. Guessing a red bike-how did I do. The hobby subject. I seem happy keeping 50-70 pounds roughing. So kinda big for hobby. But do like building stuff just as much as tumbling. And am complaining about building a small tall tumbler. Because it has to be on the big side. That slant tumbler did get laid over more. It was a good machine, but the barrel gave out. Could not find an appropriate barrel. And it was a beast. Trying to get rid of the old bruises on the obsidian in the Viking. It does not look like the 220 is going to get them out. Should I add AO 46 to take a deeper layer off ? Got to grind a layer off to remove them. Or would you do it in the rotary w/filler ? Don't think I have a choice. I think the AO 220 has already started to break down as the surface is getting smooth like a 500 finish.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 9:48:09 GMT -5
Your new tumbler design is interesting! If I'm reading you right,,,,you will have an adjustable angle incorporated into the design? I KNEW you'd figure something out! LOL Good luck,,, connrock Well I build fire pits for my cold weather income and have those bowls from 12 inches to 54 inches in diameter. Been doing them for 10 years. And buy those bowls a couple of tons at a time every other year real cheap. To save welding and expensive plate metal I would only would only have to weld it to one side. Basically a half barrel. That shape is strange. Yes, tilt will be incorporated in the stand. As needed. If needed. And nice having just 2 bearings. But double reduction a pain. Do you think that barrel will jam ? It may crush the rocks together as they roll forward creating more wear as it should pinch them. Being narrower on the outside diameter. It is different. It was not planned. Just available in the bone yard. You said I was better welding 2 of those rings together and I totally agree. Which made me get lazy all the sudden LOL. W/exception of the slow drive, the slant is cheap and quick to build. For me anyway. Main goal is to rough more efficiently. Faster I guess. Seemed kinda stuck using the larger diameter for crushing effect.
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Post by 1dave on Dec 7, 2014 20:36:57 GMT -5
Wow, jamesp, those look awesome for coming out of coarse grind. Love the gingerbread kid ginger kid name. Perfect for Thanksgiving. Remember gingerbrat LOL. The color of that fluorite is bizarre Jan. Not much like it. Blugreenurple. What a mix of colors. Lsd's you out. Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. Used the 270 with self loaded 160 grain bullets to fill the fridge. Visiting buddies from Florida got 6 deer. Friend's son got 4. He was heart broken though, me and his Dad told him not to use buckshot. He had a trophy buck walk up under him and he knocked it down twice, got up for a third time and ran off. No blood trail a so common for buckshot. We beat the bush and never found it. It would be gone the next day, big packs of coyote never leave a deer the next day in this area. Most of us incl me just meat hunting, the kid wanted big horns. The bigger the horns, the tougher the meat. Gets to where you can't even stick a fork in the gravy!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2014 20:52:36 GMT -5
Love the gingerbread kid ginger kid name. Perfect for Thanksgiving. Remember gingerbrat LOL. The color of that fluorite is bizarre Jan. Not much like it. Blugreenurple. What a mix of colors. Lsd's you out. Happy Thanksgiving to you guys. Used the 270 with self loaded 160 grain bullets to fill the fridge. Visiting buddies from Florida got 6 deer. Friend's son got 4. He was heart broken though, me and his Dad told him not to use buckshot. He had a trophy buck walk up under him and he knocked it down twice, got up for a third time and ran off. No blood trail a so common for buckshot. We beat the bush and never found it. It would be gone the next day, big packs of coyote never leave a deer the next day in this area. Most of us incl me just meat hunting, the kid wanted big horns. The bigger the horns, the tougher the meat. Gets to where you can't even stick a fork in the gravy! ha, well, he did well and got food deer too Dave. I think he took his climbing stand 50 feet up. They had a great time.
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