jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2014 19:51:35 GMT -5
May have to add an intermediate shaft for double pulley drive to keep it from vibrating more on on side than the other. So the motor is mounted low for space to add it.
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Post by MrP on Dec 30, 2014 20:14:31 GMT -5
Captbob I have made tubs out of a 10lb and 20lb LP tanks. The 20lb tank was the first one I made. I cut it down to resize it to the size I wanted and when I found the 10lb tank I found it to be almost the same size as the tank I cut down. Sure was a lot easier to make the 10lb tub. I lined the first barrel with a product from Smooth-On. It worked well for about a year before water started getting in-between the liner and the tub and rust started to cause the liner to separate from the tub so I just took it out.
I am not sure how long the tub will last without the liner but it seems to not be wearing much and besides that, LP tanks are cheap.
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Post by captbob on Dec 30, 2014 23:58:53 GMT -5
Thanks MrP, I hope there is a thread somewhere on your creation! I love this kinda stuff.
My concern really wasn't for the barrel but for the rocks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 3:23:12 GMT -5
forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/68337/vibe-machineJames You can make whatever size tub you want for that unit. I bought mine with two 6 lb tubs. I made one out of the smaller LP tank, 10lb, I think. The first one I made I spent a bunch of time and money lining it with a liquid rubber. The next one I just left as is and it works fine..............MrP Paying attention to the master pays off
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 31, 2014 4:08:02 GMT -5
Wow, that came together quickly! So now for a little tweaking and fine tuning.
What will the first test subject be?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 4:55:59 GMT -5
Wow, that came together quickly! So now for a little tweaking and fine tuning. What will the first test subject be? I posted a possibility but had to delete it. LOL. Not fit for family consumption. Initials b w b, I'll let you figure out the rest. Guessing it will be unstable Jean. It is built tall to take another drive shaft below the hopper. 39don suggested this. Hoping to get away from the $300+ double shafted motor for one reason. plus that is a 3600 RPM 1/3 HP motor, like a 427 in a Vega, and will vibrate up to a 50+ pound hopper. So using a 1000 RPM 1/8 HP motor and gearing it up for a smaller fixed 15 pound hopper. (Look at the motor in the last photo, the bolts are bent, it is a beat up old bomb) And to control left to right instability by having drive belts at each side of hopper so the hopper travels without rocking from horizontal. If it vibrates more on one side the rocks may pile up to one side, possibly overflowing. check out the guts of the Viking:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 5:44:32 GMT -5
Full length eccentric shaft in this industrial tub vibe at 2 minutes into video
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 11:45:49 GMT -5
Mounting the springs on the base....a little tricky. Not sure what to do w/out custom made spring retainers. A sharp bend in the road.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 13:10:40 GMT -5
this is really fun to watch Mr. Jim.
Why the four inch spacers?? Why not springs direct to the 2" angle iron?
In fact, why angle iron and not 2" square tube?
Dang I have so many questions. I hope I get to see this in person in a couple weeks. Georgia trip confirmed!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 13:13:38 GMT -5
Looks like the springs in the video are mounted with a sort of "spring nut" that screws into the end of the spring and is then mounted to the substrate.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 31, 2014 13:27:43 GMT -5
Bob has a parts tumbler at home. It was given to him by an old boss, needed repairs to the rusted out metal frame. After repairs, we had the bin sprayed with Rhinolining, then reassembled it. Think metal parts and ceramic tumbling media, not grit. The top of the frame, and the bottom of the bin have circular bumps that trap the springs (maybe twelve or fifteen bumps on each long side?), gravity holds the heavy bin in place. No welding of springs or special fasteners. BTW, there are two sizes (diameters and tensions) of springs, one fits inside the other.
I think I have a pic on my computer at home. If not, I'll take one and get it posted as soon as I can. Not home right now, up at Dad's while a new furnace is installed.
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Post by captbob on Dec 31, 2014 13:34:52 GMT -5
Does the barrel have to be mounted on springs to get the proper motion. Or, could it be suspended on cables like the pan on a large vibrating lap? You could sure get it to vibrate on cables, just not sure that you could get the rolling motion on the rocks. Just vibrating ain't enough. The rocks gotta do their thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 13:45:39 GMT -5
[Shotgunner eyeballs an observation.]
I think there are pics of 2 commercially made hopper style vibes in these paired threads. Both seem to have the vibe shaft mounted to the back (or front?), your seems to be center mounted.
I have no clue if this is important. Just an observation for you to ponder.
[/observation]
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 31, 2014 15:23:16 GMT -5
I wonder if the shaft mounting on the commercial units is intended to keep the size of the unit a bit smaller. The more open design of James' unit should make maintenance easier.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 31, 2014 15:32:39 GMT -5
Bob has a parts tumbler at home. It was given to him by an old boss, needed repairs to the rusted out metal frame. After repairs, we had the bin sprayed with Rhinolining, then reassembled it. Think metal parts and ceramic tumbling media, not grit. The top of the frame, and the bottom of the bin have circular bumps that trap the springs (maybe twelve or fifteen bumps on each long side?), gravity holds the heavy bin in place. No welding of springs or special fasteners. BTW, there are two sizes (diameters and tensions) of springs, one fits inside the other. I think I have a pic on my computer at home. If not, I'll take one and get it posted as soon as I can. Not home right now, up at Dad's while a new furnace is installed. Sounds like double valve springs, are they flat wound? (rectangular spring wire) Short pieces of steel tubing, maybe black pipe could contain the springs, gravity will probably do the rest. I have brazed washers to the end of springs when installing helper springs in rubber molds, but the heat shortens the spring life considerably.
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Post by captbob on Dec 31, 2014 15:58:51 GMT -5
Short pieces of steel tubing, maybe black pipe could contain the springs, gravity will probably do the rest. Brilliant!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 17:11:29 GMT -5
this is really fun to watch Mr. Jim. Why the four inch spacers?? Why not springs direct to the 2" angle iron? In fact, why angle iron and not 2" square tube? Dang I have so many questions. I hope I get to see this in person in a couple weeks. Georgia trip confirmed! Rut row, will be out of town Scott. Headed to Florida, wife coming back from a dog show 1/10-1/11, and then I get to leave. Then February it is back to work. Jan bad month around here, trying to get travels in before going back to work. That sucks. About July is winding down for plant biz, are you going to be in Atlanta regular ? All that weird mounting is for access for easy adjustments. Weight reduction too.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 19:13:17 GMT -5
Bob has a parts tumbler at home. It was given to him by an old boss, needed repairs to the rusted out metal frame. After repairs, we had the bin sprayed with Rhinolining, then reassembled it. Think metal parts and ceramic tumbling media, not grit. The top of the frame, and the bottom of the bin have circular bumps that trap the springs (maybe twelve or fifteen bumps on each long side?), gravity holds the heavy bin in place. No welding of springs or special fasteners. BTW, there are two sizes (diameters and tensions) of springs, one fits inside the other. I think I have a pic on my computer at home. If not, I'll take one and get it posted as soon as I can. Not home right now, up at Dad's while a new furnace is installed. The Viking is sprung soft Jean. Once you put 14 pounds of rock in the hopper it is kind of floating. Like one of those spring head dolls. Metal vibes seem to be stiffly sprung. Harder and faster impacts I suppose. I think that's why they chip rocks. I put 10 pounds on one of the Viking springs and measured the deflection. Divide the weight by the inches of spring deflection and presto-the spring constant in [pounds per inch]. Looked up the spring in a spring manufacturers catalog and ordered 4 of similar dimensions and same spring constant. $70 freaking dollars !! $25 in 'spring consultation fees' -serious. More money in springs that all the materials put together. Go figure. The bottom of the springs are held down by spring retainers. The top has short pegs that fit in the spring so it can be lifted away. Simple.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 19:20:54 GMT -5
Does the barrel have to be mounted on springs to get the proper motion. Or, could it be suspended on cables like the pan on a large vibrating lap? You could sure get it to vibrate on cables, just not sure that you could get the rolling motion on the rocks. Just vibrating ain't enough. The rocks gotta do their thing. captbob, there are probably many ways to mount that thing. Since I am copying the Viking, I am aware of some restrictions in it's movement. The hopper definetly has an oval orbital movement. I taped a pencil to it and recorded it's motion. If I had pulled the paper past the pencil at a know speed I could tell you the frequency. If it vibrated more on one side it may pile all the rocks to one side or the other. all kinds of crazy stuff could happen.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2014 19:26:41 GMT -5
[Shotgunner eyeballs an observation.] I think there are pics of 2 commercially made hopper style vibes in these paired threads. Both seem to have the vibe shaft mounted to the back (or front?), your seems to be center mounted. I have no clue if this is important. Just an observation for you to ponder. [/observation] There are a series of holes for the pillar blocks holding the shaft. so the shaft can be moved backward or forward. Motor rotation will have an impact too. So it is set up to easily move the shaft to find a sweet spot/s hopefully. It may never have a sweet spot. I do not know what to expect. It may end up as an anchor
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