Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 4, 2015 7:39:51 GMT -5
Jim, that's some great information!!! Thanks!!!
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 4, 2015 13:45:07 GMT -5
Some great ideas on here..........Got the bull by the horns!
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 4, 2015 15:49:18 GMT -5
Just so nobody gets dizzy and trips over their bucket(s) of rockets or something...this post was also posted in another thread to Chuck in response to him mentioning his pulley calculator spreadsheet (GREAT TOOL!!!) so you're not seeing double nor are you in some type of mysterious time warp (well, except for a couple of you ). ======================================================================= After plugging in some numbers into the calculator I've come up with some possible pulley sizes. I'm looking at two different possible motors...a 1100rpm and a 1725rpm one. Using "A" datum for all pulleys, roller shafts of 3/4", motor shaft of 1/2", and barrel diameter of 7.27"... 1100rpm motor 9" roller shaft pulley 2" motor pulley will produce 25rpm 3" motor pulley will produce 38rpm 1725 motor 9" roller shaft pulley 2" motor pulley will produce 40rpm 3" motor pulley will produce 59rpm For the 1725rpm motor there isn't much I can do as for as lowering the rpm via the motor pulley, the only option there would be replacing the large roller pulley. Seems I've got more options with the 1100rpm motor in regards to using swapping small motor pulleys to change rpm. But, will I really be wanting to change rpm. I'm looking seriously at the 1100rpm motor along with one each of the 2" and 3" motor pulleys...I think that would give me a decent rpm range. ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 4, 2015 16:52:18 GMT -5
yea, you got it dialed in. The motor pulley is great for effecting the RPM. And 2 inches is about the small limit. The roller pulley is big and expensive to change. And often requires another belt or moving the motor. Easier and cheaper to make changes with the motor pulley. The 1100 RPM easier to get desired RPM of 25-40. Over 40 is a bit fast for polishing/finishing. For a single reduction you have arrived at where I did-1100 RPM makes it all easy and avoids giant roller pulley. Those 1100 RPM motors are lower RPM, but better in that they are higher torque, and quieter like a ceiling fan motor... Another thought, most 1100 RPM A/C fan motors are 220 VAC and not 110 VAC. You might get others opinions, but I believe 220 VAC is cheaper to operate on. 110 VAC is considered a safety problem by some electricians; I have heard this from them but cannot remember why. If connected to a GFC and safely wired, maybe 220 is a good idea ?? Just asking or curious. I had one of these on a tumbler motor and really liked it. It adjusts from 2-3 inches, I believe Amazon sells them. Set it on 3 inches for coarse grind, 2 inches for 500-1000-polish www.amazon.com/Dial-Variable-Motor-Pulley-3-1/dp/B003N4CQ84
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 4, 2015 21:00:40 GMT -5
The 1100rpm motor I'm going to use is a 115v model so I'll stick with 115 VAC for now. I've got the pulleys, pillow bearings, and split shaft collars ordered. I will probably just pick up the roller shafts at Lowes...I mentioned needing the steel shafts to a friend that runs a shop for a trucking outfit but I haven't heard back from him yet, I may just pick a couple up at Lowes...if he comes through with them after the fact I'll just hang on to them for later expansion. Jim, I'm planning on using this tumbler exclusively for coarse tumbling. Would a higher speed be better? In regards to shaft installation. How far apart should they be positioned to roll 7.27 OD fittings (for 6" pipe)? Thanks for all the information!!!!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 5, 2015 8:24:26 GMT -5
i have tumbled Rio Grande agate and coral for the most part. Add pet wood. For those, 40-55 RPM in coarse is totally no problem. Yes, 40-55 will sure nuff speed things up. But will also wear the grit down fast. Do it slow/do it fast, all's same in the end.
I added another set of shafts for slower speed for 25-35 RPM after the first build on the big tumbler and loved it. So you can add to it pretty easy, and drive the second set of slower shafts off of one of the high speed shafts easily.
I choose not to do one over the other, but all a one level to avoid bearing contamination from grit caused by spills.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 5, 2015 9:32:35 GMT -5
i have tumbled Rio Grande agate and coral for the most part. Add pet wood. For those, 40-55 RPM in coarse is totally no problem. Yes, 40-55 will sure nuff speed things up. But will also wear the grit down fast. Do it slow/do it fast, all's same in the end. I added another set of shafts for slower speed for 25-35 RPM after the first build on the big tumbler and loved it. So you can add to it pretty easy, and drive the second set of slower shafts off of one of the high speed shafts easily. I choose not to do one over the other, but all a one level to avoid bearing contamination from grit caused by spills. Seems like the main differences with fast/slow are how violent (or gentle) the tumbling action is and the length of time in which the grit wears down. But being as the grit will have done it's job...whether quickly or slowly, the job will be done. Speed needs to be matched with hardness of rocks. I could kick the speed up to 50rpm with a 4" motor pulley (Chuck, thanks again for that spreadsheet!!!). If my truck shop guy shows up with a couple of shafts I may use them for some different speed rollers. I'll build the frame with extra space to allow this. I can see where having barrels rolling above other barrels could cause an issue with leaks and spills. I'm planning on mine being one level. But, being as I'm planning on these being for coarse tumbling only there shouldn't (hopefully) be an issue of contamination here. The 1100rpm motor is a cheap one from SC and only 1/20hp and I'll have to rig up a mount for it. It'll get me rolling until I can get a bit heavier motor later on. Hopefully it will do the job.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 5, 2015 9:53:39 GMT -5
Your wife is Carolyn Ed ? Net 30 days
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 5, 2015 9:57:48 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 5, 2015 10:05:47 GMT -5
if i was gonna spin a 6 inch PVC barrel up to 24 inches long i would trust that 1/20. Plus it has a 1/2 shaft and will be pulley friendly. Hope we are right. Should be darn cheap to operate. good call Ed.
the single reduction big pulley is about as efficient as it gets. if a double pulley reduction you have more bearings and 2 belts. more friction/more hassle
le buletproofonius
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 5, 2015 10:15:28 GMT -5
Your wife is Carolyn Ed ? Net 30 days (whoa)Uh, right, Jim! That's her name and the address looks correct, too! Good job. I'll tell her to be expecting it.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 5, 2015 10:46:25 GMT -5
if i was gonna spin a 6 inch PVC barrel up to 24 inches long i would trust that 1/20. Plus it has a 1/2 shaft and will be pulley friendly. Hope we are right. Should be darn cheap to operate. good call Ed. the single reduction big pulley is about as efficient as it gets. if a double pulley reduction you have more bearings and 2 belts. more friction/more hassle le buletproofonius Yeah, 1/2" shaft was a must-have for me...I'll study over the adapters/sleeves later on. That shaft and the pulleys should be plug-n-play for me. I'm hoping the electricity cost will be low...looking at my spreadsheet it's saying about $26 per month, but I'm not sure how much of a load will bring it up to full amp draw. I figure I won't be turning monstrous loads but maybe 15-20 pounds max. You have an 8hp turning lots more weight than that so I figured that 1/20hp motor would do what I need it to do...and if I want to push the envelope weight-wise, well...we'll just have to see what happens! The single reduction setup is right up my alley....simple. I'm a groupie of the KISS principle...an associate strongly with the last letter of the acronym. I may end tinkering with some large pipe that I have. It's a 32" piece of 7-7/8" ID of pvc pipe. It will be something to tinker with later...maybe. I've got some grit here, enough for a couple/few loads of 3# or so. I went ahead and ordered the #80 grit deal from Kingsley. Now I'm trying to figure out how much 220, 500, 1000, and polish I need to get on hand. I'll be doing everything after the coarse tumble in the Lot-O which is known to be miserly in it's grit/polish use. The Rockshed's "Sale" deal on five pound quantities is definitely the best deal but that seems like a lot of polish to have on hand using it 1/2 teaspoon at a time. Is it worth going ahead and buying that much polish or should I stick with a couple of pounds at a time? I could always rebag some, seal it, and stick it back in storage I guess. Five pounds at 1/2 teaspoon per batch of rocks just seems like a LOT of polish.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 5, 2015 10:55:59 GMT -5
Oh, and I ordered a 4mfd cap off of eBay....$4 shipped.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 6, 2015 10:30:23 GMT -5
I thought I'd mention that I'm the new, proud owner of two 3/4"x36" steel rods.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 6, 2015 11:18:17 GMT -5
Thought you were gonna get 48" -kidding
wished I had done 48 inches looking back at times. no cost to spinning unused longer shafts.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 9, 2015 9:51:45 GMT -5
Jim, looking back at your tumbler I see that your pillow bearings are end-to-end. There's other homebrew tumblers and tumbler plans that show the bearings overlapping, offset to each other to allow the proper distance between the shafts. Specs I get from Home Depot(?) for 6" fittings show an OD of 7.27 inches which I figure will be the "working" diameter of the 6" barrels. A mention of 75% of barrel diameter as the distance from center-to-center of the shafts has also been mentioned. For the 7.27" diameter, 75% comes to just under 5-1/2". Would that be about the correct shaft-to-shaft distance? I'm still pondering over the actual framework of the tumbler and the motor mount. Did I mention that I'm not a carpenter either?
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 9, 2015 9:54:44 GMT -5
To add the above... With the 5-1/2" center-to-center distance that would rule out using any of my current 4" barrels. Maybe I need to shelve all 4" barrels and concentrate on 6"? For small batches the 4" barrels would be handy, but, I guess I can fall back on the resurrected Thumlers.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 9, 2015 19:56:53 GMT -5
Don't know the OD of 4 inch couplings. You may have to offset the pillar blocks to get much closer.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 9, 2015 21:00:25 GMT -5
So, the 6" barrels will allow enough distance between the rollers for the pillow bearings to fit end-to-end? If that's the case, I'll just build with extra room for another set of rollers and add them later on if I want to.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 10, 2015 2:52:32 GMT -5
Shaft spacing is no big issue Ed. Most pillar blocks from 3/4 to 1 are about 6 inches long. so 1/2 a pillar block is about 3 inches. Times 2 is 6 inches. that sets a minimum of about 6 inches. Unless you offset the pillar blocks. 4" PVC a bit small for this setup I think, unless you offset.
I have run 6-8-10-12 inch barrels on same shaft spacing for a 6 inch barrel. * both shafts driven....
and yes, extra set of rollers is cheap, since you do not have to have another motor. slow set and fast set sweet
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