jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 13:25:11 GMT -5
I want clients to be able to stick a gas line to this threaded connection with a quick disconnect and get their wood in their free pit set on fire. It is a 1/4" NPT fitting welded on. Seems like it would be just like a gas grill. I just don't want flame going back up the supply tube or pipe to the tank. Any suggestions appreciated.  |
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Post by rockjunquie on May 5, 2017 15:19:22 GMT -5
I don't know squat, but I do know that you could use a flash back arrestor. I wouldn't, though. What you are suggesting sounds dangerous. But, like I said- I don't know squat.
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Post by mohs on May 5, 2017 15:22:51 GMT -5
I just don't want flame going back up the supply tube or pipe to the tank. Why ?  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 16:42:50 GMT -5
I just don't want flame going back up the supply tube or pipe to the tank. Why ?  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 16:50:26 GMT -5
I don't know squat, but I do know that you could use a flash back arrestor. I wouldn't, though. What you are suggesting sounds dangerous. But, like I said- I don't know squat. I was curious about that spark back arrestor you mentioned. These weed nozzles draw air in from the rear of the nozzle. I have used weed torches before. They are very basic.   |
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Post by captbob on May 5, 2017 17:08:23 GMT -5
I'd go with a set up like on your backyard gas grill so you could just hook up the 20lb tanks.
Not sure that is the fitting you want.
Go to Home Depot and see how their grills are set up if you don't have one.
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Post by mohs on May 5, 2017 17:09:50 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 17:36:29 GMT -5
I'd go with a set up like on your backyard gas grill so you could just hook up the 20lb tanks. Not sure that is the fitting you want. Go to Home Depot and see how their grills are set up if you don't have one. I did buy a the gas contraption for a gas fire pit using gas logs. I could basically screw the feed line straight into the fitting I welded to it. Looks basic but I am concerned. Concerned about product liability when using gas period. May be able to get it UL listed and pay the fees, probably insurance. UL will put their blessing on imported stuff that is totally dangerous. Under the table money sees to it. Crooked bunch. |
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Post by Rockoonz on May 5, 2017 20:30:11 GMT -5
Personally I would suggest hooking customers up with outside vendors for their fire lighting needs.
Too many folks don't have a clue how to light a fire without singed eyebrows,
but they all have the phone number of a personal injury attorney.
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grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
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Post by grizman on May 5, 2017 21:53:08 GMT -5
Personally I would suggest hooking customers up with outside vendors for their fire lighting needs. Too many folks don't have a clue how to light a fire without singed eyebrows, but they all have the phone number of a personal injury attorney. YUP! Leave it up to the consumer to decide how they are going to get the wood burning. There are lots of other options that THEY can explore. |
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spiritstone
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Member since August 2014
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Post by spiritstone on May 5, 2017 22:19:10 GMT -5
You should go with a gas pressure regulator. Normally however with natural gas, in residental, secondary regulators are not installed behind the secondary regulator already installed ahead of the meter. As far as the regulator question , appliance regulators control gas pressure under flow conditions , but under no flow conditions the output pressure will be the same as the input .
Line regulators are positive shut off regulators , When the gas flow is shut off , the output will not climb to match the input , but will remain at the set value . If a line regulator is installed I would always recommend one with an OPD ( over pressure device. )
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 6, 2017 4:31:40 GMT -5
You should go with a gas pressure regulator. Normally however with natural gas, in residental, secondary regulators are not installed behind the secondary regulator already installed ahead of the meter. As far as the regulator question , appliance regulators control gas pressure under flow conditions , but under no flow conditions the output pressure will be the same as the input . Line regulators are positive shut off regulators , When the gas flow is shut off , the output will not climb to match the input , but will remain at the set value . If a line regulator is installed I would always recommend one with an OPD ( over pressure device. ) Personally I would suggest hooking customers up with outside vendors for their fire lighting needs. Too many folks don't have a clue how to light a fire without singed eyebrows, but they all have the phone number of a personal injury attorney. I appreciate your knowledge on 'how to' spirit. I appreciated your warnings Lee. It makes so much sense to let the customer take on the liability and install his own Lee. It takes some extra apparatus to accomplish a safe gas feed spirit as you described. The main problem for the customer is actually installing the welded fitting as shown in the photo above. It takes me 3 minutes and $1 to weld that fitting in at the appropriate location at assembly. If I do not specify in writing that the fitting(of some sort) is a gas portal then I assume I am free of liability. If I do not or cannot mention it then how can it help my sales.... I could say that compressed air could be pumped through the portal to assist starting fire. Not totally effective. But exposes it's presence. Or "Gas portal installed to assist customer installed gas feed". But that may pull me into liability as "part of the system". And I get pulled in by insinuation when my customer blows himself up. But by the same token, I have torched holes in the bottom of the pedestal and bowl to allow customer to install his own gas line. Per his specifications. And said modification was documented in the form of an email. Which could pull me into liable. Kinda falls into the category of the $5 dollar part that can be replaced in a semi-auto gun to convert it fully automatic. Thanks for the feedback. |
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Post by 1dave on May 6, 2017 7:02:22 GMT -5
Connect the left handed framastan to the right handed veeblefitzer. DO NOT use the included doohicky.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on May 6, 2017 8:10:23 GMT -5
Connect the left handed framastan to the right handed veeblefitzer. DO NOT use the included doohicky. SOLUTION ! Supply instructions in Germanic or Davic |
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 6, 2017 9:26:33 GMT -5
ok ill throw in my 2 cents. the only time I have ever seen burnback through a hose is when using an oxy act torch. reason being the fuel side would need oxygen in the line to burn back. as we all know sometimes if you have a leaky seat on your tip, or sometimes get the tip to close the higher pressure oxy can migrate back into the lower pressure gas line. in a regular gas line there is no oxygen in the line to allow it to burn back through the line. so when said line has a leak it will burn outside the pipe when it reaches the oxy in the atmosphere. at work in our core room we have 10 hot box core machines running natural gas. if the operator says hes smelling gas ill look for a large leak visible to the naked eye. if I determine its not a huge leak that's going to cause a massive ball of flame i then grab the lighting wand the operator uses to light the box and start walking the line. ill do you 1 better look up hot tapping or welding a crack on live natural gas lines on google. even when you see tanker truck or tank explosions they burn predictably outside the tank until the heat and pressure causes a rupture.
now that the burnback has been addressed I would be more worried about a hose connection being that close. causing the hose to get soft and separate from the hose fitting. or a coal to come out and burn a hole in the hose. or joe q redneck putting the short line off his gas grill on there with the tank sitting a foot way. while you may never see a full on tank explosion you would probably see lawsuits related more to incidental injury (tripping over the line and landing in hot firepit) or just common stupidity.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 6, 2017 9:33:47 GMT -5
You should go with a gas pressure regulator. Normally however with natural gas, in residental, secondary regulators are not installed behind the secondary regulator already installed ahead of the meter. As far as the regulator question , appliance regulators control gas pressure under flow conditions , but under no flow conditions the output pressure will be the same as the input . Line regulators are positive shut off regulators , When the gas flow is shut off , the output will not climb to match the input , but will remain at the set value . If a line regulator is installed I would always recommend one with an OPD ( over pressure device. ) Personally I would suggest hooking customers up with outside vendors for their fire lighting needs. Too many folks don't have a clue how to light a fire without singed eyebrows, but they all have the phone number of a personal injury attorney. I appreciate your knowledge on 'how to' spirit. I appreciated your warnings Lee. It makes so much sense to let the customer take on the liability and install his own Lee. It takes some extra apparatus to accomplish a safe gas feed spirit as you described. The main problem for the customer is actually installing the welded fitting as shown in the photo above. It takes me 3 minutes and $1 to weld that fitting in at the appropriate location at assembly. If I do not specify in writing that the fitting(of some sort) is a gas portal then I assume I am free of liability. If I do not or cannot mention it then how can it help my sales.... I could say that compressed air could be pumped through the portal to assist starting fire. Not totally effective. But exposes it's presence. Or "Gas portal installed to assist customer installed gas feed". But that may pull me into liability as "part of the system". And I get pulled in by insinuation when my customer blows himself up. But by the same token, I have torched holes in the bottom of the pedestal and bowl to allow customer to install his own gas line. Per his specifications. And said modification was documented in the form of an email. Which could pull me into liable. Kinda falls into the category of the $5 dollar part that can be replaced in a semi-auto gun to convert it fully automatic. Thanks for the feedback. that looks like a rainy day drain for when you leave the cover off. hint hint. |
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jamesp
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Posts: 36,595
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Post by jamesp on May 6, 2017 9:42:11 GMT -5
Lol that would be 'a second rainy day drain' notjustone |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,595
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Post by jamesp on May 6, 2017 9:51:04 GMT -5
ok ill throw in my 2 cents. the only time I have ever seen burnback through a hose is when using an oxy act torch. reason being the fuel side would need oxygen in the line to burn back. as we all know sometimes if you have a leaky seat on your tip, or sometimes get the tip to close the higher pressure oxy can migrate back into the lower pressure gas line. in a regular gas line there is no oxygen in the line to allow it to burn back through the line. so when said line has a leak it will burn outside the pipe when it reaches the oxy in the atmosphere. at work in our core room we have 10 hot box core machines running natural gas. if the operator says hes smelling gas ill look for a large leak visible to the naked eye. if I determine its not a huge leak that's going to cause a massive ball of flame i then grab the lighting wand the operator uses to light the box and start walking the line. ill do you 1 better look up hot tapping or welding a crack on live natural gas lines on google. even when you see tanker truck or tank explosions they burn predictably outside the tank until the heat and pressure causes a rupture. now that the burnback has been addressed I would be more worried about a hose connection being that close. causing the hose to get soft and separate from the hose fitting. or a coal to come out and burn a hole in the hose. or joe q redneck putting the short line off his gas grill on there with the tank sitting a foot way. while you may never see a full on tank explosion you would probably see lawsuits related more to incidental injury (tripping over the line and landing in hot firepit) or just common stupidity. The 2nd paragraph is of most concern. Tank too close, leak in line, line to close to heat. A 5 foot lightweight pipe stuck sideways into the drain hole would probably serve as well as any system. Easy to stick in the hole and easy to remove from the hole. 1" thin wall conduit stuck through drain portal for illustrative purposes.  |
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on May 6, 2017 11:16:07 GMT -5
if I were to do the 5 foot pipe I would put a bell reducer on it with a pipe plug drilled out to create an orifice. while the flame will not burn back all the way to the hose it can burn back into a pipe that is wide open like that when it has low fuel pressre or backpressure. an orifice creates an area where if there is some backpressure which forces oxy in it will burn out and starve itself. when you light your torch and don't have enough gas it pops as it burns up air in the line and goes out. but since you don't have your oxy on it just pops starves and goes out good example of what happens when there is air fuel mixture.
I would not call it an air injection hole or some idiot will hook up his compressor wide open, blow embers out all over his family while they were enjoying a pleasant night making smores.
not to mention what happens when john q redneck doesn't pull that pipe after the fire is lit. builds the mother of all fires to impress bobbie jo redneck. after a certain amount of time bobbie jo is impressed. they decide to pull hot pipe and put the contraption away for the night. john burns his hand on hot pipe then sues for lack of spousal attention cause he burnt her favorite fingering finger?
sounds funny but I know a local stihl chainsaw dealer that used to sell log splitters that doesn't anymore after a customer cut his fingers off. so the guy sued the manufacturer and the distributer. the distributer with less money for lawyers ended up wth the claim. pain and suffering, loss of present and predicted future income since customer could no longer type efficiently. and believe it or not alienation of spousal attention (or something like that) because his wife left him while he was out of work.
this is one of them cases where unless you can get ul listing so that your insurance will back you in the event of a claim. it probably wouldn't be worth the profit offset created by the addition of such accessory. just weld in a bung call it a secondary drain in case bottom drain is full of debris and let the customers do the redneck engineering.
ps uber cool would be one full of lava rock for them city dwellers with lack of firewood.
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Post by coloradocliff on May 6, 2017 23:24:27 GMT -5
Jamesp... Bet the government has a publication on that. We're from the government and we're here to help.. Don't take on the extra liability. How you going to ignite it? How you going to keep that area free from wood ashes? Tell them to use charcoal lighting fluid and stop being prissy.. hehehehe
Maybe convince them that its more earth friendly if they are the gullible kind of customers. Your firepits totally rock. How did that telluride one work out? Telluride is just over the hill from me and we use firepits for backyard and brew pub parties.
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