richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 31, 2016 0:12:22 GMT -5
I’m a new tumbler also so my answers probably aren’t the gold standard but this is what I have been doing. My tumbler is rated for only 3lbs but I have been working under the notion that 3lb doesn’t include the weight of the barrel. With that in mind, my current loading method is as follows. I fill the barrel half way with rocks then add grit (2.5tbs) and fill water to the top of the rocks. Then I continue adding rocks until I reach a total of 3lbs in the barrel. This is usually about ¾ or so full which seems to work pretty well.
I sure hope adding new rough stock to make up the difference doesn’t hurt because that is exactly what I have been doing. As far as I can tell it isn’t harmful.
I’m curious to know the answers to #3. I have only done a couple of loads past the coarse stage so far and neither of them went very well.
I suggest not being too aggressive with the loading of the tumbler barrels. I have found that overloading the barrel means that the rocks don’t tumble properly and the process ends up taking a LOT longer. I have found when I have the barrel loaded properly I can rotate it in my hand and I can hear the rocks rolling across one another.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 23:47:04 GMT -5
Richard, I agree that your failure is due to material that is not suitable for tumbling because of cleavage problems, pitting or fractures that transverse the rock. The color is right but the material is wrong for tumbling since removing one layer just exposes the next bad layer. You need to have a good mix from the beginning and you will be successful. You should find some really good wood in your area that will do well. Best of luck. You are definitely correct about the wood, I seem to have no problem finding the petrified wood around here. I am ashamed to admit it but I'm not nearly as into pet wood as I am the pretty jaspers and agates that I see posted here. I am in the process of purchasing some Mexican Crazy Lace Agate that will hopefully be easier to deal with. From the photography section of this site, the stuff should look really neat. Thanks very much for your help, I think I have finally accepted that not every neat looking rock is suitable for tumbling.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 23:41:21 GMT -5
Mr. Dillon is king of Texas agate. I believe George West reservoir and the soil roads in Live Oak county are chock full of pet wood. Maybe some research as to what section of the county. I found wood my first run up there. No specific spot. It was on most of the soil roads. www.flickr.com/photos/97769244@N00/albums/72157622353574911Some very interesting photos there. This is definitely the sort of thing I am looking for to help me recognize what sorts of things might be worth picking up. This afternoon I had the opportunity to go out and look for some rocks along a gravel road not too far from our house. I spent the evening cutting open some of the ones I thought might be agates but what I got was just boring brown rock inside. I don't think I ended up keeping any of them. I did get a few pieces of pet wood. I tried cutting that and wow does that stuff fragment easily. I had my first saw accident when a piece of pet wood broke in half when I was cutting it and tore up part of the tip of my thumb and thumbnail. I will definitely be more cautious going forward. I'm already wearing safety glasses and a mask. Maybe I need some sort of gloves as well.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 23:35:46 GMT -5
Being in Texas you have a smorgasbord of material. you have the famous Rio Grand down on the shores of Lake Falcon. Must go there. You mentioned Jacincto. You lucky. Rio's
San Jacinto
Lajitas area
You should be sending us all material, Richard. Get your bucket out and get busy.
Those are some nice looking rocks. I need to train my eye to spot the really neat ones. I find that so far it is easy for me to spot the red jasper and the pet wood but I haven't been able to find any agate yet. I have been searching for photos of what agates might look like laying on the ground but when I search for photos I pretty much find tons of beautiful photos of the inside of them. So much to learn!
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 23:33:02 GMT -5
dottyt,
Great idea. I did a quick check and Houston does have an organization, the Houston Gem & Mineral society. Hopefully I can make it to a meeting and check them out. Looks like a neat group! Thanks for the suggestion.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 14:28:47 GMT -5
If I really bear down on it quartz will barely scratch it. I couldn't really get it to scratch the quartz. I think it is slightly softer than Quartz. Then your friend may be correct on the black one being tourmaline. Look up how to measure specific gravity. Then do that. Report back here. As best as I can determine the gravity of the black rock is 3.1
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 11:52:29 GMT -5
My family goes out to Live Oak County once a year for a big get together. Do you know of any particular locations to hunt for rocks? I did find a nice gravel road near our hose that has lots of pet wood on it.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Tumbler
Jul 29, 2016 11:48:38 GMT -5
Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 11:48:38 GMT -5
My experience is very limited but I have a HF 3lb tumbler that I have been running continuously since April. I think maybe the product is OK but QC isn't so hot. If you can exchange it for another one you might be able to get one that lasts longer.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 11:18:14 GMT -5
jamesp
I forgot to add, that coral looks really cool, where do you find it?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 11:17:44 GMT -5
jamesp I have been grinding on some of the jasper pieces this morning and I think you hit the nail on the head. I just don't think it is very well formed material. Some of the pieces are looking OK with few or no pits and most of them seem to be porous. As I keep grinding I find more cracks and cavities. It is difficult to accept even though it is obvious. Not all material is equal. It is difficult to give up on rocks that I thought would be neat looking but the reality is that most of my rocks probably never will make good polished specimens. I just need to set the lower quality ones aside and seek out better quality ones.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 29, 2016 11:13:07 GMT -5
Schorl is a mohs 7. Try to scratch thr black one with an agate or jasper. Report back here If I really bear down on it quartz will barely scratch it. I couldn't really get it to scratch the quartz. I think it is slightly softer than Quartz.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 28, 2016 20:11:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the leaverite term, learned something new (and funny). I sent the picture of the black rock to my friend who is a geologist and he thought it might be tourmaline. Anyway, I am going to hang onto it because I think it is a cool rock but probably not so much for tumbling.
-Makr K Yes, definitely don't want to breath the dust. I have been wearing a mask when I cut the rocks. I don't have a wife yet but my mom would kill me if I ran that saw in the house or garage.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 28, 2016 15:40:24 GMT -5
Thanks very much for the advice. Yes, I have been using a scale to weigh in the rocks. Most of the rocks in the barrel now are red ones just like the one in the photo. There are a few other rocks but the majority are all the same. I don't believe I have any 60/90 left but the problems started showing up when I put the rocks in with the 120/220. It is raining at the moment so my grinding will have to wait since I must do the work outside.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 28, 2016 14:17:19 GMT -5
Peruano,
This is what I was suspecting. When I look closely at the jasper it appears to be many layers of differing consistency. I guess this makes total sense based on my understanding of how jasper is formed. That top part of the rock appears to be a softer material. After I read your reply I went back and tried scratching it with a nail and I could barely scratch that section and the other parts of the rock would not scratch. When I have a little time I will grind that part of the rock away and throw it (and the other similar rocks that are in the tumbler) back into the coarse grit for a while then try again. I think I might need to find some better rocks. If all goes as planned I will make a trip to the San Jacinto river this weekend and hopefully find some good specimens.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 28, 2016 8:34:54 GMT -5
Thanks very much for the help. I have the three pound tumbler as well as a little toy one that holds maybe half a pound of rocks. It is loud but so far I have gotten away with running it. I completely understand why people have several tumblers going at once. Hopefully I can get a vibratory tumbler soon. I was looking at a small Raytech or a Lot-O. My budget is pretty modest. I do have the 3lb tumbler in a more or less perpetual coarse grind. I just check it every few days and add new rocks as room becomes available and take rocks out that look like they are completely smooth. I think I will continue this way and just do all the subsequent stages in the vib.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 28, 2016 8:27:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the help everyone, I will try to grind it off and give it another try.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 21:51:27 GMT -5
Thanks all for such useful information, this thread has been a great read!
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 21:33:33 GMT -5
Garage Rocker,
Again I am totally inspired! I think I am slowly learning exactly what you are talking about. I think I might have finally gotten it through my head to give plenty of time in stage 1. I am now starting to appreciate the importance of good quality starting material. When I started out on this activity I sort of envisioned tossing a bunch of rocks into the barrel, following the instructions and four weeks later coming out with a bunch of glossy looking rocks. Boy was I off on that notion.
I am starting to realize that many of the rocks I have collected just may not be suitable for tumbling. As you mention, I am seeing lots of deep cracks, pits and the like in my “feed stock.” I purchased a few pounds of agates from a couple of places on line and now that I have built a bit of experience I am starting to come to the realization that 90% of what I got will likely not give me the result I am after simply because they are so fractured and irregular.
Recently I discovered that a tile saw (which we already had in our garage) could be used to help get them into a more appropriate shape. Unfortunately for most of them I had to cut them down to near pebble size to get rid of all the problem areas. Hopefully I can find a place to get some agates and other hard rocks to tumble not too far from home (I live in Houston, TX).
It has been a fun learning process but there is nothing like a success to boost the spirits.
Photography is another subject I am interested in. I have what I think is a decent camera (Rebel SL1) and I was given a lens that I think is pretty decent to use with it (Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX macro). The AF motor is busted on the lens but that isn’t an issue for photographing rocks. I have been using a sheet of printer paper as a background and indirect lighting with the camera on a tripod. My results pale in comparison to a skilled photographer like you. I LOVE the lighting and the colors and textures look so well defined.
I tried using f/11 and a lower ISO setting to get enough depth of field without too much graininess and that seems to do OK but I still think I need more depth of field. The problem is that when I go to smaller apertures like f/16 and f/22 the shutter speed is so slow that I can see camera shake. My tripod is a $40 special and probably not really up to the task. I have tried playing with a cable release (just got it the day before yesterday) and mirror lock-up and I am doing better but still need to experiment.
What aperture do you use for your photos?
Thanks again for sharing, looking at pictures like these just gets me all excited about the possibilities in rock tumbling.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 21:15:17 GMT -5
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. With both of these rocks I did use a tile saw to cut off all of the imperfections. Basically I went around and any surface that had deep scratches, chips, pits… and shaved them down little by little until they were smooth. The result was rocks that looked smooth but had a bunch of flat faces. When I put them back into the coarse grit until the flat faces were rounded and the rocks were smooth overall.
I was very pleased at this point because it looked like I would be able to save a lot of time in the coarse stage. I took the fully smoothed rocks and cleaned them twice with dish detergent along with the media and barrel and then started a 120-220 grit stage. After a week in this stage I got the results you see here.
Being a beginner I don’t know if I did everything correctly but I think the hardness is at least around 7 because I was able to scratch neither with an iron nail. That was basically the test I did to determine what would be appropriate to put in the tumbler. If a nail could scratch it, it didn’t go in.
The black rock seems to cleave in one direction. I think it might be some sort of beryl. I think I found it near San Diego, CA but it was a long time ago and I am not totally sure about that.
Anyway, I suspect the problem with the black one is the cleavage. I did notice it when I was cutting it with the saw. I found it difficult to get smooth surfaces because pieces kept chipping off and at one point a large portion of the rock just sort of flaked off.
Does anyone know if this type of material is possible to tumble successfully?
On the red rock I think the problem might just be that the rock is of low quality and has little bubbles or cavities throughout. I guess I am trying to say that the rock is sort of porous and no matter how much I wear it down I will constantly expose new cavities.
However, I am not sure that the rocks (particularly the red ones) aren’t getting damaged from crashing into each other and the tumbling action is just too harsh for these rocks. I thought that adding small ceramic media would help avoid this but I don’t know if that is the case or not.
My plan at this point is to throw the red rocks back into the coarse stage and keep grinding them down and see if I can get them smooth again. I think the black rock is beyond my skill level at this time and I will just set it aside until I learn more.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 14:26:22 GMT -5
Neat report and rocks. I went out to Pawnee once to look at birds, I wish I had looked for some rocks out there too.
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