richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 13:20:00 GMT -5
".... I need more equipment. And more rocks!"
You and me both!
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 11:28:40 GMT -5
Jugglerguy, thanks very much for your answer. I was mostly thinking about the loss in capacity from all the media rather than the cost of the media though for me cost is always a factor. It sounds like the media's purpose is mostly to insure that all of the surfaces get good contact and not so much for cushioning to protect the rocks. Am I on the right track here?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 11:22:17 GMT -5
I have been working for weeks on my second batch of rocks (the first batch was a failure) and am still running into come challenges that I would like some help with. I believe this rock is some sort of jasper. I collected it from the bank of the Brazos River in southeast Texas near Houston. I had tumbled it with 46-70 grit SiC for about two weeks and I never seemed to be able to get rid of all of the scratches and fishers. After reading on these forums about someone using a tile saw to shape rocks I decided to give it a try with the tile saw we had in the garage. I went around and cut away all of the parts of the rock with visible scratches, cracks, fishers… and ended up with a rock that was more or less flat on all sides. I tumbled this for an additional week in the 46-70 grit SiC and ended up with a rock that I was very excited about. Everything looked pretty smooth and the edges were nicely rounded giving pretty much the shape you see here. I then tumbled this rock with a bunch of similar rocks with 120-220 grit SiC for a week that ended this morning. When I checked the rocks pretty much all of them came out looking like this. New cracks were visile, lots of pitting and chips… I thought I was being fairly gentle. I am using a Harbor Freight 3lb tumbler which has a rubber barrel and I used the following formula when starting the 120-220 stage. 1.5lb rocks 0.5lb small ceramic media (they had already been broken in during my first batch) 1.5 tbsp of 120-220 Sic (purchased from Rockshed) Water up to the level of the top of the rocks in the barrel. The barrel was about ¾ of the way full and when I turned it in my hand it sounded like the rocks had plenty of room to roll across each other. When I opened the barrel this morning the grit all seemed to be broken down into very fine powder. When I felt it with my finger tips there was not any gritty feel at all. Here are a couple of photos of what the rocks look like now when dry. I did have another rock that I found on a trip to California a couple of years ago. I am not sure what it is but it seems to be suffering even more from this last stage. Here are a couple of sample images of it: Can anyone identify what I am doing wrong or suggest anything that might help yield better results? Is the problem simply that the quality of my rocks is so poor that I am just revealing imperfections that were always there and I need to find a better quality feedstock? I do have some agates going in a second tumbler and I understand that they might be easier to tumble but they still appear to need lots more time in the course stage. I may be misidentifying what I am trying to tumble but I was under the impression that jasper was relatively easy to tumble. Thanks for any help you might be able to offer.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 10:01:18 GMT -5
WOW those are beautiful. Definitely the sorts of results I dream of achieving some day. The photography is very impressive as well. I would love to more details about your “studio.” The lighting is fantastic and really reveals the beauty of your rocks.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 9:58:07 GMT -5
I have been thinking about investing in a vibratory tumbler and as part of the process I am thinking that when I get one I will need some additional ceramic media. Is it necessary to use small ceramic media in a vibratory tumbler like the Lot-O? For example, if I have enough rocks to fill the bowl is it a reasonable idea to just fill it with all rocks and no media?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 9:54:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, interesting information about the slurry thickness. So many variables to keep track of!
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 27, 2016 9:52:50 GMT -5
Neat idea txrockhunter. Is the rubber mat underneath to dampen the vibration to the floor? I keep reading that these things are quite loud and I am thinking that could be an issue for me and trying to come up with ways to minimize disturbance to my family.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 24, 2016 17:40:24 GMT -5
Beautiful rocks! I'm definitely inspired. I hope to have a few of my own to show in a week or two. Seeing yours is making me drool and is making the temptation to go open my tumbler to see how mine are doing almost irresistible.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 23, 2016 11:27:35 GMT -5
I'm also very new and have been trying to figure things out just like you. In my limited experience I found that when I put way too much grit in the rocks didn't tumble well and most of the grit still hadn't broken down even after a week of tumbling. Also there was minimal wear/shaping action on my rocks. This was putting a little more than two tablespoons or grit per pound of rocks so way over the typical rule of thumb. I keep wanting to rush the first stage and I believe this is why I have had such a difficult time getting the results I want. So far what I am seeing is that you really want to have the rocks in the final shape you want at the end of the first stage (no chips, cracks...). If there are imperfections going into stage two they will remain through the rest of the process and in your finished rocks.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 23, 2016 11:22:18 GMT -5
Mine is a Skill brand saw but the machine looks identical to the one in the photo. It came with a blade and to the best of my knowledge that blade is still on the saw. I spent some time this morning experimenting with it and it seems to be doing a great job. I quickly determined that I needed some decent hearing protection when using it and found the spray to be a bit if a challenge with the safety glasses but I think I am going to enjoy using it to cut off some of the flaws on my rough rocks, hopefully speeding up stage one in my tumbler. I did notice that the supplied blade does make a pretty wide cut. I will have to be careful or I will only have tiny pebbles left when I am done. Almost all of the rock I have now is stuff that I found around my local area so it probably isn't a big deal that lots of it gets wasted during cutting. Thanks for all the tips and great info.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 23, 2016 11:17:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips, I have taken notes for when I get my Lot-O.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 21, 2016 13:44:38 GMT -5
This thing looks just like the Skill tile saw we have out in the garage, maybe I need to get it out and start experimenting.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 21, 2016 13:37:06 GMT -5
Interesting post, what is the purpose of the "epoxy in the hole" Does the Lot-O not come ready to run? I get it that you have to secure it to something solid but I didn't know I would have to be playing with epoxy. What kind of epoxy does one need to use? Still thinking about buying one but want to be clear about everything before I do.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 21, 2016 7:31:36 GMT -5
I have been using the 46/70 from rockshed and it seems to be working great but then I'm a greenhorn too. I think I want to try the 30 once I have used up all of my 46/70 because it seems like it should last a little longer before breaking down. Maybe my logic is wrong but it seems like if you are starting with something that has part of it already broken down to 70 or 90 then you have less to really do the shaping. It seems like it would take 30 to longer to break down since the particles are larger and all of them start out at the same size. Though it will be interesting to actually measure how long it takes and how much grinding is actually done between the two. So far my personal experiments appear to indicate that using fresh grit (and cleaning out all the old grit/rock dust) every 3 to 4 days gives me the fastest shaping action and after this amount of time none of the grit is still in the 46/70 range. Leaving it longer than 4 days just results in the rocks getting polished as if they are in the later stages. In my mind this is wasted energy since there are still plenty of pits and cracks... that need to be worn away.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 20:16:13 GMT -5
Chuck,
Thanks very much. I think I will be saving up for the single Lot-O and an extra bowl. I don't know that I will have enough rocks to fill two bowls at once any time soon. My rotary tumbler only has a 3lb capacity so it takes me a long time to get through the rough stage and only a few rocks at a time.
Do you have any suggestions about how much ceramic media should be used?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 19:07:30 GMT -5
After my first experience with a HF vibratory tumbler I have decided to spend more money and get a Lot-O. When I look it appears that the double Lot-O costs just a little more than the single Lot-O plus an extra bowl for polish.
Here are my questions:
Can the double Lot-O be run with only one bowl in it?
Is the Lot-O recommended for softer rocks (apatite, amazonite…)?
What is the bowl made of?
Thanks in advance
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 18:42:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. So it looks like I will need to invest ~$230 for the tumbler + an extra bowl. It does sound like a very nice piece of equipment but from what I have read it is pretty loud. I don't live alone and I don't know how long the family will handle the added noise. So far they have been good sports about my HF rotary tumbler. Is the bowl rubber or hard plastic? As I said before I am very interested in polishing some softer rocks and if I am going to make such a large investment (for me anyway) I want to be sure I am buying the right tool for the job.
I just got back from HF. I ended up returning the vibratory tumbler I had from them.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 17:08:44 GMT -5
I am coming to that conclusion which leads me to my next question. My budget is limited and I am very interested in polishing softer stones. What would be a better vibratory tumbler that doesn't cost a fortune?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 16:43:32 GMT -5
There doesn't appear to be an easy way to remove the bowl, this was another thing that I found annoying about this unit. I can take it off but I can't see a way to do it easily and with a full bowl. I guess you do actually get something more when you pay more than $65.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 20, 2016 16:27:28 GMT -5
I will try the rubber band and search for the thread. The machine doesn’t budge at all from where I put it and if I bolt it down I am not sure how I will be able to empty it when it completes a stage. My impression so far is that vibratory tumblers are a whole lot more work than rotary tumblers.
Thanks for the tip!
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