A manatee rib-NOT-too much marrow

[jamesp]

After reading i feel even more convinced.There should be truck loads of human fossil bones.One human in Laos?I am thinking human fossil remains should be common.Seem odd that they are so rare?looks like they killed the Africa theory.It is not convincing to me.

[bhiatt]

ancient man....atee. Im here all night.

[jakesrocks]

May 14, 2013 20:21:02 GMT -5 helens said:

Wut? What IS it?!

As in... how can it possibly be a manatee rib, if manatees were dragged here as a food supply for the Spaniards from the West Indies only 500 years ago or so??

It pays to do a little research, before flapping jaw.

Fossil ancestors of the Manatee, the Dugong have been found in Florida as far back as 45-50 Million Years ago. The fossil record tells us that there were many more species at one time and they were wider spread than today. The Manatees themselves evolved about 15 Million Years ago. The modern Manatee, Trichechus, has been in Florida the last 3 Million years, from the Pliocene to Recent.

[jamesp]

I put that thing in here for you Brad.Figured you would get kick out of it.It ain't gem bone but it looks original.

[helens]

How long does it take to make a fossil? Do we have fossils thousands vs millions of years old? Humans haven't been around millions of years, so how would they become fossils?

Most fossils are millions of years old right?

That said, they just found a 2 million year old human fossil!
www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7410/full/nature11322.html

and here
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_life64.htm

[jamesp]

It just does not make sense Helen.I spend so much time in infamous mammal preservations sites collecting coral.And three mammal fossil collectors in Florida w/huge collections.Every mammal you could ever imagine roamed Florida.Great habitat for us humans.But not one human fossil.Over 20 varieties of Saber Tooth Lion around the world,many saber finds in Florida,no humans though.This Florida museum in Florida has 1/2 million vertebrete fossils alone.No human stuff.
www.flmnh.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/
I looked at 2 million year old Kenya skull on the link.It did mention 'new species'.Looking at that skull,i would say primate.Those rare finds that are on the line of primate and human verify the rare occurance of humanoid.
Collecting artifacts on clay here in Georgia is another eye opener.If the grading equipment scrapes a few inches into the clay he removes all artifacts and pushes them away.So the artifact bearing layer is amazingly shallow.Been to at least 300,probably 500 graded sites here in Atlanta where development cut into the typical flat spot above a creek or river out of the flood zone and uncovered camp sites.
It does not seem to add up.

[free4rms]

Dugong fossils are very common on the coastal plain of S.C. where I live. I have been collecting fossils here for almost fifty years, and dugong fossils are very commonly found in S.C. marine Oligocene and Eocene beds. I wonder about the bone in the photo being dugong since the extreme majority of the hundreds of rib fragments I have seen do not have the porosity in the marrow that you see in the photo. Dugong and manatee bones are very dense (this helps them maintain bouyancy in the water) and usually quite heavy. If anyone is really interested, I can post photos of typical dugong rib fossils from this area.

[jamesp]

Please do Vance.I have no warranty that this is a manatee bone whatsoever.It sure could be a whale.Almost for sure an aquatic creature.That limits it to whale or manatee,porpoise?There were many ribs at this site from thumb size to this heavy rib.Looking forward to pics.

[Geoff]

Helen, we have petrified wood up here that's only ~125 years old. There's a study on it from some university I saved a while back. I'll dig around for it. Iirc it's dolomite permineralization.

[bhiatt]

May 15, 2013 19:07:06 GMT -5 jamesp said:

I put that thing in here for you Brad.Figured you would get kick out of it.It ain't gem bone but it looks original.

I like anything fossil related. Doesnt have to be just gem bone. Thanks for showing it off. Ribs are one of my favorites to collect.

[helens]

May 16, 2013 9:47:45 GMT -5 Geoff said:

Helen, we have petrified wood up here that's only ~125 years old. There's a study on it from some university I saved a while back. I'll dig around for it. Iirc it's dolomite permineralization.

Interesting...

I don't know much about fossils, nor do I read much about them, but the biggest explanation to me of why there aren't many human fossils is that since humans recorded their own history for the last 6000 years, we've had funerary services.

Where they find these burial areas, they usually do find fossils... but aren't fossils mostly made when things die in certain conditions? If a human gets injured in a particular place, their other humans drag them home to try to fix them.

It's rare that people die in remote places good for preservation... but where they did, like the human sacrifices in Peru, and the Iceman getting lost in the alps by himself... we found mummies (not fossils), thousands of years old.

Why aren't there more fossils? Before we wrote down our history, because we developed WRITTEN language, we probably dragged our injured or dying to where we could try to help them,, and then buried them when they died in particular spots (not near volcanic activity). That's what I'd think (course I don't know, don't know much about fossils).

Aren't there cities full of human fossils at Vesuvius, where the cities of Pompeii and other one got demolished?

Elephants and seals do this too right? Care about their dead? They just can't drag their dead anywhere, or try to bind their wounds... they don't have hands.

How many fossils of monkeys compared to humans? I think monkeys try to help their injured too? Are there lots more monkey fossils? How many have you found?

[jamesp]

Geoff,i gotta look up a process like that too.It happens in Florida and i can not remember what is involved.I am going to find out.It is a rare process though.
It is odd Helen.Humanity is mysterious.

[jamesp]

Vance-you are right.I made a mistake.Too much marrow to be a sirenian/manatee/dugong.

Like other sirenians, the dugong experiences pachyostosis, a condition in which the ribs and other long bones are unusually solid and contain little or no marrow. These heavy bones, which are among the densest in the animal kingdom,[19] may act as a ballast to help keep sirenians suspended slightly below the water's surface.[20]

[Fossilman]

Ok,did some research and came up with some answers on human fossil and what fossilization is and when it starts...

askville.amazon.com/years-skeleton-bone-turn-fossil/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=56857617

[jamesp]

That is a great link Fossilman.It is not a direct answer and kinda confuses a bit.Looks like theory is involved.I gotta sit and study on that one and that link.Initially looks complicated-what do you think?

[Fossilman]

I do know its takes water and lots of top soil (dirt) to start the process of fossilization....I have buffalo bone that comes close to being fossil(its from the 1800's)...As said it all depends on the situation...
Its to bad they couldn't find an animal that was far enough away from the explosing to be complete and see what level of fossil they would be now...
As also said,the minerals in the water help on it being fossils too........Science,got to love some of it....(Not all of it,but some of it..)

[jamesp]

I got to find out from my fossil hunter bud Fossilman.He floats around in florida river like a manatee finding fossils.He collects hundreds of bone sharpened by indian.I think they were already fossilized when the indian sharpened the bone.Instead of a kill by the indian.If the indian killed the animal and then carved the bone and then the bone tool petrified it would have petrified after the indian killed the animal.
It still twists my brain that Fossilman walks all over Montana and Dakota for years and has not found a bucket of human bones.Me and my Florida fossilfloridamen never find human fossils.I have found human bones and teeth in plowed fields in Georgia where the farmer plowed thru the indian mound in his bottom land.Two such mounds within 5 miles of the house.The human bones give me the creeps.And i found human remains where Florida lakes have washed away indian mounds close to the shore.I despise mound diggers-that's not me.I only do river,lake and plowed fields to hunt artifacts.
If a vein of flint/agate/coral/milk quartz is exposed in these parts it was usually mined by indian.Usually camped on.These are very old out crops that would most likely had indian activity from the earliest times.These locations are where i collect artifacts and tumbling.Coral exposures are kinda few and far between-99 percent in the rivers.Often with thousands and thousands of pounds of stained coral broken by early man.Like the river is paved with these fragments for 100's of feet upstream and downstream from these exposed fossilized reefs.That also served as crossings,fish traps,flint/coral tools where game was probably slaughtered.Every shoal having high ground being heavily camped and occupied.So i have logged a great many hours in these heavily occupied locations and no human fossils.
I think the bones sharpened by indians should be considered carefully.First-the most common is small ribs sharpened on both sides about 3-4 inches long.I think they are too thick to be white tail.So probably a much older species.But i gotta find out.You see,mammal bones pretty much dissolved in Georgia.Some areas closer to the coast is where these preservations occur.Like saber tooth lions-i think they are only found in the phosphate district of the Polk county area near Orlando.The infamous Peace River flows in this area-big time fossil river.

[jamesp]

Over 20 minerals can petrify

Trask guess it just depends on what was present when the bone was buried. A few of the pins I have have actually fossilized and are a more brown color. The rougher one has yet to become fossilized and is black. I guess like you said it's whatever minerals/organic material was present when it was going through the petrification/decomposition process. Here is a paragraph.(Permineralization and petrification are processes leading to the preservation of tissues in three dimensions. They are common, for example, in bones which have a high porosity and are filled with marrow. If bones become buried when an animal dies, ground water can permeate. Carbonate minerals such as calcite, or silica, precipitate out of solution and solidify the organic material, accurately preserving the internal cellular structure. This is the process of permineralization, and has occurred in most older fossils.[1] In permineralization, the cell pores are packed with minerals, while the walls remain highly organic.[6] Replacement happens when minerals replace the organic matter completely. The mineral replacement of shell or bone is also called petrification, because it turns organic material into stone.[4] When a fossil is petrified, both the cell walls and voids are mineralized.[6] Another example of petrification is silicified wood. Around 20 different minerals have been found to replace fossils. Chalcedony, pyrite and iron oxide are common in replacement.)
and a pic of the fossils I have found river hunting down the Trinity. The vertebrae is black and hard as stone.


Attached Images


Share








The history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.



Reply With Quote.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


01-31-2013, 07:40 PM#9




bls2036

[jamesp]

Cool stuff

www.arrowheadology.com/forums/what-world/38315-bone-pins.html

[bhiatt]

nice link jamesp, I typed in cahokia mounds and all kinds of stuff popped up. It will keep me busy for a while looking at all the posts about the place.
I lived right next to the mounds until I was 7. My uncle still lives in the house. There is a deer refuge at the mounds and right before night time you can count at least a hundred.
Use to go sledding down the big mound.
Actually drove right past it yesterday going to the dump. Had to drive slow and couldnt take the interstate. Had a sanford and sons load. Took the slow route, the road going by the mounds.
Funny but not so funny, it is a historic ground and literally right behind the big mound is a major interstate heading into st louis and just a half mile down is a trash dump.
They were cutting the grass yesterday around the mounds. Looked pretty good.