A manatee rib-NOT-too much marrow

[jamesp]

I must watch this Helen.The plaque on the teeth is new technology.A break away from the years of carbon 14 controversy.I am so burned out on dating methods and watching those guys vascillate over the years.And the lame bone theories.Find the plants and dial in the age maybe.Also the DNA subject you brought up may be the biggest breakthru on where we started out-Africa china etc

[helens]

James, ALL the Secrets of the Dead series are amazing... I started watching a few of them last nite, and I'm hooked. So well done, so fascinating. Many facets of history I never knew or thought about before.

And, every single episode is available online, and if you go back the 4 pages worth of episodes, there's a link to the ARCHIVED episodes. I had NO IDEA PBS produced stuff like this!!!

[parfive]

Florida manatees takin’ a beatin’ this year – 607 dead as of May 17.

myfwc.com/media/2470899/preliminary.pdf

[jamesp]

Had a long day.Gotta look at Secrets of the Dead PBS .Is that parfive's link?

That is depressing parfive.Palm Beach and Fort Myers are very populated.So many deaths occurred in those areas.Hopefully the giant water masses will protect them.I am not sure about the dynamics of cold stress.They cover so much territory,i am sure wildlife folks understand it all.

[jamesp]

Public release date: 2-Apr-2013
[ Print | E-mail | Share ] [ Close Window ]

Contact: SINC
[e-mail]
34-914-251-820
FECYT - Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology

Scientists provide a more accurate age for the El Sidron cave Neanderthals

A study has been able to accurately determine the age of the Neanderthal remains found in the El Sidrón cave (Asturias, Spain) for which previous studies had provided inexact measurements. The application of a pre-treatment to reduce contamination by modern carbon has managed to lower the margin of error from 40,000 to just 3,200 years.

www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/f-sf-spa040213.php

[jamesp]

The accuracy of carbon 14 is still a huge issue.El Sidron was recently retested with new ultrapurification equipment.The age of the site went from 10,000 to 49,000 years old-due to new carbon 14 just this year?
Just saying,carbon 14 has been around for a long time and new advances are being made.Passively watching this subject for 35 years i have seen carbon 14 go full circle many times.The sample has to be,well,perhaps cleaner than physically possible.
Beware of the word-'ultrapurification equipment'.(x) of reading=(f) of purity
So i am a bit jaded w/the radioactive daters
All instruments must have an accurate datum to be trusted/accurate.As said before,we have nothing to hold in our hand that is 2754 years old(or 4000 or 40,000) to compare the accuracy of carbon 14 values.
This El Sidron site is one of the most amazing finds ever.Captivating discovery.The cannibal stuff is so cool.The fact that it was multiple skeletons.And flint tools found in another continent. Modern day Sci Fi

[helens]

As for Carbon 14... it's based on carbon radioactive half life, which is a precisely fixed value, so very accurate, except for contamination as you pointed out.

It's how they date stuff OLDER than the 60,000 years that Carbon 14 half life can be measured that relies on old rock information of geological strata that becomes questionable. That doesn't mean it's not explained somewhere, I just haven't found that explanation.

[jamesp]

One of the only paleo flint artifacts I have and dearest wife found it.She has rubbed it in for years.Found in Oconee Lake when water was low.Weird chert(never seen it).Classic Dalton form

I came close to a paleo category-Edgefield scraper in the notorious paleo rich Suwanee River.This form is found in late paleo/early archaic age.Not very common but very peculiar making it almost impossible to confuse w/another form.Classic 'in the river find' in silicified coral territory at a shoal crossing in White Springs Florida.Shine typical of sand polish in river.

Found this coral beauty at same shoal and about 6 others

Another view.On left is late archaic level found in shell midden pile on my lot at Lake George Marion County Florida.It is classic Marion form made of Ocala ridge chert.
On the right is a thick and probably resharpened push pole spear head.It is so thick and heavy i can not imagine it being on a hand launched spear.Found 50 feet down stream from a spring boil flowing out of the wall of the river.Also river sand polished.

[helens]

Very neat! I've never found a single artifact ever... the concept is really odd but fascinating... very lucky finds:).

[jamesp]

Thanks Helen.It takes so much time.I decided to collect coral,artifacts,old bottles,fossils and drift wood while tinkering.
Just floating in that clean water w/mask and snorkel for hours during the heat of the summer sorting thru the stuff that has settled on the bottom of those Florida rivers is a bit heavenly.
The sand in Florida covers up treasures quickly.It is a challenge to find them in Florida.Like i got 20 from Florida and a thousand from Ga,Al,TN.But Florida dudes made smokin points.They are sought after.Especially the coral ones.
I am not sure about the luck as much as the long hours:>

[jamesp]

This is a site of categorized flint points/projectiles/arrowheads/spearheads.A Florida publication.I can verify some of the Georgia/Alabama forms.I think it was very important for early man to have access to flints/agates/coral.Not prerequisite but helpful to his needs.
www.projectilepoints.net/Pages/Florida.html

[jamesp]

More Florida stuff.About half from rivers an half from constantly receding Florida lake shorelines.

[helens]

I must be terribly unobservant... have been on plenty of water and coasts and Never saw anything like those... but if I did, I'm not sure I'd notice it among rocks.

It would be so neat if we could make those rocks talk, what a story they could tell...

[jamesp]

When i used to collect seeds and cuttings on the St John's River i used a Jetski and covered a lot of miles to pickup taros,thalias,cannas,various hibiscus,crinums,hymenocallis,etc.When the wind was blowing from the south it blew the water up the river basically draining it some exposing artifacts.
Buzzing down the shoreline i quickly learned that a small percentage was high ground.Due to the fact that tall pines and oaks were visible from several thousand feet in the lake.Swampy ground had cypress,tupelos and gums.So that would often be high and dry land having been used by ancient man.
Then i learned that light green foliage of Soap Berry Tree pointed to heavy lime soil(in an acidic forest?).The Soap Berrys were always growing in shell midden.Shell midden that was left from ancient man.Mostly snails on the St.Johns.
So that was how i located sites-Soap Berry Trees.And my biologist friend pointed them out to me.It is involved process.

Yep,i wish they could talk to us Helen.Set all these archeologists,artifact collectors,anthropologists,etc straight in a hurry!

[jamesp]

This batch is an assortment within 100 miles of Atlanta.A couple of these are probable paleo.The ace o spades shaped ones were found on a plowed mound near my house.They are funky ceramonial,witchcrafty sacrifice designs.They give me the creeps cause mound indians are wack jobs.Third column from the left-top one and 2nd from bottom.

[helens]

Not seeing the different sacrificial witchcrafty ones... every single one is different. The ones that are most like the ace of spades are the 2nd from the right very top, which looks a bit like a mushroom, and the 2nd row center at the very bottom. Rest look like pointy arrowheads except for the round white ones on top right?

There's one grey with a red streak across it that looks a little bit like the Neanderthal tools the show was talking about... has that sort of indent in the center.

Whilie I was watching that Neanderthal show, I noticed that the way their tools were made, and the description of how they looked random and simpler when in fact they were MUCH harder to do... I noticed that they look a whole lot like YOUR chips that you sent from the coral. Maybe you accidentally figured out how they did it, because I have quite a few chips from you with that shape, where all you'd have to do is take out a few chips at the top to get it pointy, and you'd have a Neanderthal tool.

[jamesp]

The 2 you pointed out are the ones(not so pointy,sort of blunt).An inefficient design for puncturing.
I am not practiced with flint artifacts from other countries.Never studied them much.I know us artifact hunters often see a chip of flint and argue that it was fashioned by ancient man.When hunting artifacts in an area that is 50-100 miles away from flint/coral like Atlanta and Lake George it is common to see almost every chip of flint has a sharp edge chipped by ancient man.Because it is so rare and has to be carried in from I-75 area 50 miles away.Flint being a superior meat cutting material.It was completely utilised.Same in Atlanta.Flint is 100 miles away.Black flint from NW Georgia and coastal chert from the south half of GA.Most arrowheads are made out of crystalline quartz in Atlanta and is an inferior material
Florida has great fossils of many bizarre mammals.I do not recall primate fossils/bones.I do not recall neanderthal fossils/bones.I know primates are in Africa and South America and Asia and Russia.Did North America even have primates in ancient times?Have they ever found any signs of neanderthals in North America?I don't think so.
That would render my stomping grounds devoid of cro mag,neanda man,missing linkers,primate categories.
Puts a lot of the study and all the sites overseas.

[bhiatt]

hell of a collection you have there. Thanks for telling the history behind them. A lot of them look dang near perfectly symetrical. Good stuff.

[jamesp]

I like finding them Brad.Sometimes more interested in the topography/living conditions/why they were there stuff.The fact that those guys were there blow my mind.I see pretty settings w/good flat area,spring,caoneable river close by.No taxes,fish,hunt,collect rocks,no taxes,go mostly where you want.May have been the life!

[helens]

James, watch the show, you will love it. They discuss some of the points too, and how Neanderthal points were different.

Click the 'play' button in the middle of the video pix (you can expand the video to full screen by clicking the very bottom right square in the video pix, and exit full screen by hitting the esc button on your keyboard): www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/caveman-cold-case-watch-the-full-episode/1017/