herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Mar 29, 2014 0:34:35 GMT -5
2014.04.10 - Update 1 at the end of this post. I was trying to help @tumbleon troubleshoot his tumbling trouble tonight: link to threadAnd I figured I'd go ahead and put my money where my mouth is and start my own 3# batch. I bought some Bahia from therockshed.com a couple weeks back, and I found a blade for my Lortone Combo unit that I bought from John at JSGems - johnjsgems - this past summer and forgot I had. I've been running the original 30-year-old blade on that thing since I dished the nice blade I bought a few years ago. This thing cuts like a dream, but that's beside the point, except to say I went through 5# of Bahia agates, cutting almost all of them, in about 30 minutes. So here's the play by play on the 3# tumble. Barrel has been sitting on the shelf for probably a year: Cut up Bahias: They were a touch over 3/4 but since they are somewhat large (leaving more space between them) I was OK with it. When they are very chunky I will load a touch heavy in smaller barrel so they can reduce a lot in volume and still work each other. 2 tablespoons of 60-90: 6 tablespoons of water (no more, you can't even see it down in the rocks - this is why I never understood the "bottom of the top layer of rocks" instructions): In retrospect, I may have (due to being on the bench a while and getting a little lazy) parroted the "bottom of the top layer of rocks" instructions - and if I did I apologize! In all honesty when I was starting my 12# a few weeks ago I filled it that full then smacked myself when I remembered that I'd already learned that lesson. (pour out water, feel stupid all night)And it's off and spinning! I'll update in 10 days or so. ************ **UPDATE 1** ************ OK 10 days has passed so I opened up the 3# barrel, I haven't touched it since I closed the lid 10 days ago. First thing, the slurry was runny - I'd say too much water but I only put in 6Tbsp. I think tkvancil saw the problem on the way in, I didn't have any filler. I generally tumble in a 6# or 12# barrel, and if I were to fill one of those with the chunky Bahias I think the action would have easily slurried up, but in the 3# barrel things aren't quite as violent so smaller stuff should help to get things movign. All the grit was pulverized though, and there had definitely been some rounding, so I don't think this was wasted time at all. OK, thin slurry: everything rinsed: Some of the Bahias, I'm really glad I cut all the ones that had some fortification: This was was so close to being ready, but it had a very small crack on one side, so it went back in. The rest of it was completely smooth: I opted to add a handful of ceramic media to try and get a little more slurry this time. Same measurements on grit and water: I put it back together and let it run. I'll check it again on the 23rd.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 0:45:24 GMT -5
I signed back on to say thanks for this...Ive been doing the bottom of the top layer of rocks, I hope and sure this will help me....im gonna redo everything tomorrow, just too late to do it tonight=] thanks man
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 29, 2014 15:11:21 GMT -5
Pretty cool idea John. I notice we have a fair amount of new members here and many of them are new to tumbling. Could be a big help to all. I'll follow this thread for a couple reasons. One is that I love bahias and the other is that I have recently only begun to use the recharge method so maybe I'll get some tips there.
Couple of questions .... Don't see smalls, are they hiding down at the bottom or do you have something else going on? I also notice you've got some relatively flat faces on some of the rocks. Flat faces tend to go concave on me as they tumble, ever encountered that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 15:37:54 GMT -5
OK,I do have one concern before I do it.....I only have this 1 barrel......its a harbor freight product......will the grit and such a low amount of water wear down the barrel? And I know you should have a separate barrel for polish but Im stuck with this one for now...Will it just be plain dumb to even attempt a polish tumble with my current barrel if I do this......it seems to me clean up will be a lot more difficult, again I don't know this is why I ask you =]
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Mar 29, 2014 19:38:30 GMT -5
Anything from Harbor Freight has a limited lifespan, I'm sorry to say. That said the motor will go long before the barrel.
If you only have one barrel run with that for now. It's going to be a while before you get to polish and you may be able to pick up a spare by then. If not, just try it with what you have. The worst thing you risk is having the polish not take a great shine, and you can always polish them later again when you get a separate barrel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 19:49:48 GMT -5
Makes sense to me, thanks=] so far ive been lucky though with this tumbler, dad got it for me right before Christmas, its been running smoothly, it came with a bag of extra belts but haven't had to replace one....I should oil it soon though before I push my luck
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 20:02:06 GMT -5
the only thing that has wore on it except a slight gash on the rubber holding the metal lid inside is the plastic tab holding the barrel away from the frame...Monday is the day Im going to switch running 2 tbsp. grit....6 tbsp. water..I shall keep you updated
Chris
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azgnoinc
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Post by azgnoinc on Apr 1, 2014 20:38:23 GMT -5
Being a newb and reading this I already know that I've got way too much water in my coarse barrel I've got running now - so I'm gonna modify that situation tomorrow as this batch has only been running for 3 days now - thanks for sharing your tips and going through your own step by step. And as an FYI -I spoke to Harbor Freight customer service tonight to inquire about getting additional barrels, I've got 2 of the dbl barrel tumblers they sell and wanted another barrel to have one for each stage, they do not sell the barrels individually, only the covers, so if you want/need additional barrels you have to buy a complete tumbler from them.
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Apr 2, 2014 0:44:35 GMT -5
Welcome azgnoinc! I'll check my 3# barrel in another week or so, but I'll restate what has been passed around this board a lot; you are taking your life into your own hands with Harbor Freight (particularly the motors) That said, I shop there and buy all sorts of goodies there, it has its place. Plus if you buy the warranty on items with motors you can just go in and swap them out when they burn out. I'm thinking I under-did the water and grit a little, I don't typically run my 3# barrel, but I will know better once the 10 days is up. That was my breakthrough though, much less water. So even if you went a half cup (8 TBSP) and 3 TBSP grit you'd be in much better shape.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 15:54:22 GMT -5
herchenx Thursday is the day, if I think im ready for fine grit....do I use the same amount of grit and water for the second stage?
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Apr 8, 2014 16:05:24 GMT -5
This is the second lesson of tumbling: repeat the coarse stage until it is done.
The 60/90 grit breaks down after [everyone disagrees] days (I let mine run 10 to be sure) - but the stones aren't done coarse grinding. If any stone is completely smooth on the outside, free of any pits or any cracks, it is ready to move onto the next stage. If that is the case you should rinse it good and set it aside (I use a plastic container).
Fill your coarse barrel back up with all the other stones that AREN'T ready to move one (they have any pits or cracks) and add some new stones to get the volume back up to 3/4 full, put in your grit and water as before, and send the tumbler back for another 10 days.
The primary misconception I had was that this was a purely linear process (step 1, step 2, step 3) - it is not. It is iterative and requires patience.
Most quartz stones can be fairly smooth in one or 2 coarse tumbles, but agate, jasper, flint, chert, most granites, etc. take at least 2. I've had Lake Superior Agates in coarse for 6 months.
The other stages are a little more deterministic, you can run for a week or 10 days or whatever rotary tumblers take these days (I use a vibe) and then move on, but the coarse tumble is critical to let run as long as is needed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 16:53:37 GMT -5
got it herchenx.....I might not of made it clear but most of the stones have went 2 coarses already, I just wasn't having great results with them....Im sure as you said Ill still want to do them atleast another round......since the big ones im working on are aquamarines and emeralds in matrix and like an 8 on the mohs scale......but when time is ready for them, do I use the same water/grit formula for fine grit? CHRIS
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 9, 2014 0:57:09 GMT -5
got it herchenx.....I might not of made it clear but most of the stones have went 2 coarses already, I just wasn't having great results with them....Im sure as you said Ill still want to do them atleast another round......since the big ones im working on are aquamarines and emeralds in matrix and like an 8 on the mohs scale......but when time is ready for them, do I use the same water/grit formula for fine grit? CHRIS I'm not herchenx but I have done plenty of rotary batches. For the 220 I use 4 tbs. of grit and 1/2 cup water, slightly more than discussed in this thread. Let that run for ten days. Barrel should still be 2/3 to 3/4 full. I like ceramic if I need filler, plastic slows everything down IMHO and doesn't allow the grit to break down readily and do its thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 1:00:43 GMT -5
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Apr 9, 2014 9:10:56 GMT -5
Thanks for chiming in tkvancil - I'm only good for coarse rotary info so once he has enough that is ready he'll need your help. Stay true to course @tumbleon, be selective about what you set aside for the next grind and you will be happy with your results.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 16:36:31 GMT -5
herchenx ill do that bro, thanks again for all your help
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 17:46:57 GMT -5
herchenx oh yeah if I do go another round in coarse..im sure I will, would you just drop in more grit? or should I clean out so I can maintain optimal water level? Chris
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Apr 9, 2014 18:15:13 GMT -5
Every time I restart rough I rinse and recharge. I look at every stone and see if it is ready to set aside or not. If stones are obviously cracked or pitted I don't scrub them rigorously and I don't care if a little slurry goes back in but I redo everything so I know the level of stone, the amount of grit and the amount of water.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 19:04:05 GMT -5
gotcha, when they are done ill show the results
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 19:38:30 GMT -5
one decent rock, will take pics tomorrow......everything else is smoothing out but really slow
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