jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 5:39:47 GMT -5
Looking to increase weight and wedging force on rocks as they roll. This one should be about a 30-35 pound capacity. Barrel is 20 inches in diameter to increase weight on rocks. Can be set up changeable for different barrel diameters. Barrel is elliptical so it is progressively smaller toward the outside edge perhaps creating wedging force also as rocks roll. A flat plat will be welded to the open side of bowl. A 6 inch metal pipe stub about 2 inches long will be welded to the plate for access. Pipe stub can be sealed with a rubber pipe cap using band clamp. 6 inch opening will be placed close to edge so that barrel can be turned off when clean out is at bottom(6 o'clock). Base will have 2 telescoping legs for running tilted if desired. Designed for coarse grind, finish to be completed in a vibe or cylinder shaped barrel rotary. Two bearings placed away from slurry contamination. check it out, started yesterday:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 7:48:13 GMT -5
Looks like a really huge improvement on the tire tumbler. Will you need to put veins in it to make the rocks roll? Great thinking outside the box so it will be very interesting to see how it works. Maybe it will be an improvement over something that has been around for ? years. Jim
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 30, 2014 8:52:38 GMT -5
Always trying to build a better mousetrap. Its way cool that your able to not only think up these things but also have the tools and skills to get them done.
Chuck
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2014 9:53:38 GMT -5
Watching with interest and for the sheer entertainment value. Impressive project.
Why a flat plate instead of another bowl half?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 9:55:44 GMT -5
Looks like a really huge improvement on the tire tumbler. Will you need to put veins in it to make the rocks roll? Great thinking outside the box so it will be very interesting to see how it works. Maybe it will be an improvement over something that has been around for ? years. Jim Jim, I would guess that the wedge shape may give traction. It can also be slanted, which would help them roll. But being kinda wedge shaped, I am guessing the rocks should grab and roll. Steel has better traction than plastic; that may help. Was not welding it shut if someone felt strongly about requiring kickers. Was planning on running it 3/4 full, which is tricky to do with a tire tumbler and keep it from leaking. will see. thanks for stopping by
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 10:12:44 GMT -5
Watching with interest and for the sheer entertainment value. Impressive project. Why a flat plate instead of another bowl half? Two reasons captbob. One was the added capacity. With 2 bowls it would be about a 70 pound capacity. As it is, at 35 pounds, i suppose big enough. The other reason is lessor, but a flat surface to weld a 6 inch portal to close to the edge for easy draining/dumping. Since turning pretty slow and being cantilevered, this one would handle a gas vent if tilted. As long as it extends long enough to not let water out. Like a plumbing fitting welded about center to the flat plate with a pvc pipe sticking out above water level.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 10:19:14 GMT -5
Always trying to build a better mousetrap. Its way cool that your able to not only think up these things but also have the tools and skills to get them done. Chuck Winter income is fire pits Chuck. Some are set on pedestals. Got the jig to align the pedestals and the bowls available, why not try one ?
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2014 10:22:52 GMT -5
Are you thinking that the rocks will tumble and not just slide without kickers?
I've not had the time to think this over as you have, but my early thought would be that tilting would lessen tumbling and promote sliding even more.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 11:12:27 GMT -5
Are you thinking that the rocks will tumble and not just slide without kickers? I've not had the time to think this over as you have, but my early thought would be that tilting would lessen tumbling and promote sliding even more. Thinking that the rocks should wedge a bit captbob. Since the barrel tapers on the edges. Would be surprised if they slipped. Tilt does stop sliding, been there done that one. If you tilted it completely horizontal(shaft pointing into ground) nothing could slide. As you move the barrel to vertical gravity has more effect on pulling on the rocks to make them slide. Tilting definitely softens the tumble. Question arises about a Lortone 6 and a Lortone 12. Same diameter, except the 6 is half as wide. The walls being closer together on the 6 gotta roll the rocks to the center of the barrel. Is that good or bad ? I would guess the side walls would assist in rolling the rocks with out kickers. The two 6 pound barrels have twice as much wall surface than the single 12 pound barrel. Always curious if two 6's tumbles faster than one 12. In the case of this tumbler, I was looking for tall, for the added weight on the rocks.
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Post by iant on Nov 30, 2014 11:34:22 GMT -5
Watching with interest. Love these kind of threads!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 11:38:42 GMT -5
Watching with interest. Love these kind of threads! I will try note to bore you Ian. But will not revert to immoral behavior.
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Post by iant on Nov 30, 2014 12:04:25 GMT -5
Watching with interest. Love these kind of threads! I will try note to bore you Ian. But will not revert to immoral behavior. Do what you like, just try not to lose a limb or anything serious like that!
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
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Post by panamark on Nov 30, 2014 12:08:28 GMT -5
I like the way you think James. Always interesting to hang around you. Question: are you planning on using grit in this? I ask because I think that with all that weight, the grit will get crushed and fracture into tiny, tiny size very quickly. Silicon Carbide seems to be easily fractured if I remember right. Since this is a quick, rough, first stage process maybe you are thinking of going without grit or going with your famous driveway gravel? Even then though I think you will form a VERY thick slurry extremely quickly. How would tumbling dry work in this (besides being fabulously noisy)?
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2014 12:20:46 GMT -5
Thinking that the rocks should wedge a bit captbob. Since the barrel tapers on the edges. Would be surprised if they slipped. Tilt does stop sliding, been there done that one. If you tilted it completely horizontal(shaft pointing into ground) nothing could slide. As you move the barrel to vertical gravity has more effect on pulling on the rocks to make them slide. Tilting definitely softens the tumble. So with the shaft horizontal, you are looking for the rocks to be wedged by the taper of the bowl to facilitate the tumbling. I can follow that logic as gravity and the weight of the rocks will work for you. But, I'm not seeing how tilting the bowl will stop the rocks from sliding. My mental image of what would be going on in the "barrel" is that by tilting you are lessening the benefit of gravity doing the work. You wrote: "I f you tilted it completely horizontal(shaft pointing into ground) nothing could slide." Yeah, they wouldn't slide, but they wouldn't tumble either. They would sit still in relation to the bowl and simply rotate around the shaft - not moving at all. Maybe my brain takes Sunday off (more so than other days), but I just don't see how the rocks will tumble with a tilt. And, at a slow rotation, if the "wedging" theory doesn't pan out, how they will tumble rather than simply slide with the "barrel" vertical. With a faster rotation speed, centrifugal force may be enough to carry the mass far enough up to cause the rocks to tumble (waterfall) down. But, at a slow speed, with no kickers, will the wedge effect be enough to cause the rocks to tumble rather than simply slide to remain at the lowest point? An side thought - how strong is that weld gonna be? Would having the shaft go all the way through the "barrel" be beneficial? The water level won't be that high (center of the bowl), but will the rock load be over the half bowl level??
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 12:27:51 GMT -5
I like the way you think James. Always interesting to hang around you. Question: are you planning on using grit in this? I ask because I think that with all that weight, the grit will get crushed and fracture into tiny, tiny size very quickly. Silicon Carbide seems to be easily fractured if I remember right. Since this is a quick, rough, first stage process maybe you are thinking of going without grit or going with your famous driveway gravel? Even then though I think you will form a VERY thick slurry extremely quickly. How would tumbling dry work in this (besides being fabulously noisy)? I see old home builds from the old timers using the tall design Mark. Just thought I would give it a go. And never see tumbler companies making them. Guessing they have to be a bit large and noisy. yes, using SiC and water, same conventional way as most of us coarse tumble. it sure must break the grit fast. I have no idea if that translates into economical wear. It will be a low velocity high weight type load. I am not sure which breaks the SiC down worse, speed or weight. But that would be the theme I suppose.
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2014 12:29:00 GMT -5
panamark brought up another question. Will the metal "barrel" cause excessive foam? <font = curious>
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 12:48:55 GMT -5
Thinking that the rocks should wedge a bit captbob. Since the barrel tapers on the edges. Would be surprised if they slipped. Tilt does stop sliding, been there done that one. If you tilted it completely horizontal(shaft pointing into ground) nothing could slide. As you move the barrel to vertical gravity has more effect on pulling on the rocks to make them slide. Tilting definitely softens the tumble. So with the shaft horizontal, you are looking for the rocks to be wedged by the taper of the bowl to facilitate the tumbling. I can follow that logic as gravity and the weight of the rocks will work for you. But, I'm not seeing how tilting the bowl will stop the rocks from sliding. My mental image of what would be going on in the "barrel" is that by tilting you are lessening the benefit of gravity doing the work. You wrote: "I f you tilted it completely horizontal(shaft pointing into ground) nothing could slide." Yeah, they wouldn't slide, but they wouldn't tumble either. They would sit still in relation to the bowl and simply rotate around the shaft - not moving at all. Maybe my brain takes Sunday off (more so than other days), but I just don't see how the rocks will tumble with a tilt. And, at a slow rotation, if the "wedging" theory doesn't pan out, how they will tumble rather than simply slide with the "barrel" vertical. With a faster rotation speed, centrifugal force may be enough to carry the mass far enough up to cause the rocks to tumble (waterfall) down. But, at a slow speed, with no kickers, will the wedge effect be enough to cause the rocks to tumble rather than simply slide to remain at the lowest point? An side thought - how strong is that weld gonna be? Would having the shaft go all the way through the "barrel" be beneficial? The water level won't be that high (center of the bowl), but will the rock load be over the half bowl level?? The tilt does effect the tumble a lot. Having played with a tilter I can say the more close to vertical the more rolling you get. And the more chance of slipping. I think it would make sense if you held a jar of powdered spices or candy from the kitchen and watched it as you rotated it. The more vertical the barrel gets the more slippage occurs I suppose because it has to 'climb' up the barrel. The wedge effect is a guess, if it will provide friction. I will spin it slow, there will not be centrifugal force at the slow speed it will turn. I want weight and not speed to do the grinding. That welded joint is not finished. I will weld gussets on the outside to assist strength. Had to get it aligned good. It is ready for gussets. The shaft sure could have gone all the way thru and been stronger. Either way.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 13:01:32 GMT -5
panamark brought up another question. Will the metal "barrel" cause excessive foam? <font = curious> Brass, copper and galvanized stuff sure will foam. I have a tilt type steel tumbler for removing rust and it never foams. But foam an unpredictable animal. I could attach a bladder on the flat side. I was going to weld a 3/4 inch drain on it to set water level. 2 inch threaded drain welded to fire pit
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 14:25:24 GMT -5
Add reinforcements at the bowl connection
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2014 16:12:01 GMT -5
more welding that I care to do Had a perfect pattern for the ray gun to cut the plate Clean for a purdy weld prepped for initial weld on lazy susuan looong weld final weld cleaned up flat side view
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